A TEI Project

Interview of Maxine Minovitz

Contents

1. Transcript

1.1. SESSION ONE JANUARY 27, 2009

SEIGEL
Okay its January 27, 2009 and its Carolyn Seigel, I am here interviewing Maxine Minovitz, good morning.
MINOVITZ
Hi.
SEIGEL
We are going to start out talking a little bit about just your background in terms of growing up, may be first just tell me what were the names of your parents?
MINOVITZ
What?
SEIGEL
Your parent’s names.
MINOVITZ
Goldie and Zam Davis.
SEIGEL
And how did they get to Pasadena?
MINOVITZ
They didn’t, I was raised in Glendale.
SEIGEL
Okay so they came to Glendale, how did they come to Glendale?
MINOVITZ
Because I have asthma.
SEIGEL
Oh so where were you before that?
MINOVITZ
Boyle Heights.
SEIGEL
Okay so how did they get to Boyle Heights? Did your grandparents came to California?
MINOVITZ
They died in Boyle Heights, my grandfather was in the Breed Street Schul and he blew the chauffer.
SEIGEL
Do you know how when your grandparents immigrated to California?
MINOVITZ
No not really, Harold parents came around 1915, my parents were born here, I believe my father claimed he was but he was not, he was born in Russia, he came here as a small child but he always claimed he went in the services that his papers were lost in Philadelphia.
SEIGEL
So he claimed to be a native Californian.
MINOVITZ
My folks met in San Francisco but they were originally from Philadelphia I think, I don’t know, not too sure.
SEIGEL
Okay so you don’t, because one thing we are curious about is why certain Jews came to lets say Boyle Heights, why they went there? A lot of people came from back east, Midwest, and what motivated them to come to California? So do you have any idea in the case of your…
MINOVITZ
When my mother came to California, she had her grandmother here, she lost her mother, and her father was already gone so she took her younger brother on the train and came to her grandmother, who was living here.
SEIGEL
In Boyle Heights?
MINOVITZ
Yeah in that area.
SEIGEL
Did you have Jewish education while growing up?
MINOVITZ
Just somewhat.
SEIGEL
Yeah can you describe what you did or what you remember?
MINOVITZ
Ah we joined the temple for a little while, it was a little temple in Glendale.
SEIGEL
Is it the same temple that is in Glendale now?
MINOVITZ
No that’s a nice beautiful one. They were building it when I got married. Yeah we went occasionally, we always went to the high holidays to my grandparents, my father’s parents, my father wasn’t religious at all and actually I always say whatever I have learned, I have learned from Harold because he came from religious parents and culture, all that kind of stuff. I think my mom kept Kosher until the war broke out and she didn’t drive and it was hard for her to get you know Kosher meat she gave it up but my folks didn’t give me that much of a Jewish background.
SEIGEL
I mean did you go to a Sunday school or some time later?
MINOVITZ
I think may be once or twice but I didn’t have that much, while I joined the BBGs at a very early age and all my friends in school, well in Glendale you weren’t accepted as a Jew, blacks were not allowed after 5 o'clock and the Jews were not allowed to join the girl scouts or anything like that when I was growing up in Glendale.
SEIGEL
I even heard that you weren’t allowed to own a home if you were a Jewish in Glendale.
MINOVITZ
They were able to buy a house, they had a nice house.
SEIGEL
But there were others, so you went, did you go to a public school?
MINOVITZ
I went to public school, we walked.
SEIGEL
And did you feel then…the Jewish kids sort of lunched together?
MINOVITZ
Not that many, in Glendale very few high schools, Glendale High which I happened to go to, we always lunched together and I recently met somebody who graduated the same year I did and I of course I did not know her and she said why wouldn’t it wasn’t that big of a school, why wouldn’t I have known you? I said because you never accepted us. We were not allowed in any clubs, you know we weren’t part of the school, we had our own little group.
SEIGEL
And did she remember that way?
MINOVITZ
She was shocked; she didn’t even know what is going on.
SEIGEL
So what kind of activities did you do at BBG as it sounds like that was a big party year social life.
MINOVITZ
Yeah well that’s how we met Harold eventually.
SEIGEL
Oh really?
MINOVITZ
We had social groups and oh I guess we did some impromptu, we went to the hospitals and during the holidays made things for other tables.
SEIGEL
Did you have like dances?
MINOVITZ
Oh we went to dances in LA yeah.
SEIGEL
So is that how you met? How did you meet Harold then?
MINOVITZ
He actually came to Glendale with some friends, just hung out by our meetings and actually that was the first time Pasadena had a social, it was November 1st, 1948 I guess, and there is this swimming pool right, next to the temple, and we hung out around, well the swimming pool was closed, anyway I met him that night and he called and…
SEIGEL
How old were you?
MINOVITZ
He was still in the service.
SEIGEL
And how old were you?
MINOVITZ
I was 18 and then I turned 19 within a few months and then I got married when I was 20.
SEIGEL
Were you going to college?
MINOVITZ
I went to LACC for two years.
SEIGEL
So what you were doing at that time? What were you studying?
MINOVITZ
Nursery school education.
SEIGEL
So when you had these social events, were they mostly at temples or were they at people’s houses or?
MINOVITZ
Both
SEIGEL
Oh yeah, what were more fun, do you remember…did it make a difference? And who organized them?
MINOVITZ
We had an advisor.
SEIGEL
And do you remember if you like paid dues or was it all?
MINOVITZ
Yeah we did. I remember yea, we did pay dues.
SEIGEL
And did you get involved with any sort of Zionism or any kind of activism around Israel at that time?
MINOVITZ
No.
SEIGEL
Okay I have some just general history because we are talking about the war and stuff. Do you have any remembrances specific to Pearl Harbor?
MINOVITZ
Very strong yeah.
SEIGEL
And what do you remember?
MINOVITZ
I was with my parents at a friend’s house, because I didn’t even know where Pearl Harbor was, I have never been to Hawaii or never have thought of going just you know, Shirley Temple had been there, and yeah the war was really dramatic and we neighborhood girls had a booth and we sold war stamps, I think they were 25 cents a stamp and bonds were 18$.
SEIGEL
Was the booth it was on the street?
MINOVITZ
It was on the street on Brand Boulevard.
SEIGEL
Oh really at Brand Boulevard you had a booth to sell war stamps.
MINOVITZ
The Brand Boulevard is not what it was then.
SEIGEL
Yeah what was it like?
MINOVITZ
Well we had one departmental store called Webbs, that was it. We didn’t even have Sears. God it was a little dinky town, they had little street cart, we took the bus to the street cart and the red line went downtown LA and I had a sister that is 14 months older and I and my mom, my sister and I would clean the house on Saturday morning and get on the bus the street cart and go downtown LA to go to Bullocks to the tea room and to a movie, it was a big event so Saturday afternoon.
SEIGEL
Well you mentioned Saturday mornings, do you know did your father would go to Schula?
MINOVITZ
Oh God forbid, he would never go to the temple.
SEIGEL
So if he didn’t go to Schula, your mom wouldn’t go to Schula.
MINOVITZ
Well when I had my oldest son, I had two boys when I got married, he forbid me to have a brisk and Harold’s parents were horrified and he thought it was barbaric.
SEIGEL
So did you have it do in the hospital?
MINOVITZ
Yeah I had it done while they were still, in those days we stayed five days. No he actually forbid me and being a daughter, I didn’t; but my in- laws were horrified and he thought it was barbaric. That was his generation.
SEIGEL
Yeah right maybe they felt that they were making a stand against tradition.
MINOVITZ
No he just thought that a moyal 8:22 wouldn’t be as well, the doctor in the hospital. I don’t know if he ever had any bad feelings of growing up, anything happened to any body.
SEIGEL
Well probably your sons are okay.
MINOVITZ
Yeah they are fine.
SEIGEL
I think nowadays we think that some moyals have more practice doing it particularly if they actually are urologist sometimes.
MINOVITZ
Actually interestingly my second son had two brisks so.
SEIGEL
They make up for?
MINOVITZ
No he just felt like it.
SEIGEL
Oh for his own sons.
MINOVITZ
Yeah and he felt like it was interesting.
SEIGEL
So let me see, in terms of temple activities, so were you involved with temple activities at the temple in Glendale because you didn’t belong to the Pasadena temple, you belonged to…
MINOVITZ
I was active in…
SEIGEL
What was the name of the temple in Glendale, do you know?
MINOVITZ
I think we just called it Glendale Temple in those days, as far as I know, they didn’t have a name. It was in a little teeny house and then they were building this very big one, that they have now and they started and the rabbi came over to the house and it was interesting and he said, don’t plan the wedding there. They’ll never finish it, they’ll never have, I mean it was going to take them years and it did. They couldn’t raise the money and stuff. So he said don’t count on it. But Pasadena only had that little temple that is on the side, they didn’t have any problem in either.
SEIGEL
And Schula on the left kind of and so did you get married at Pasadena?
MINOVITZ
I got married in Lakshman Hall.
SEIGEL
And did you join Pasadena as a young couple or how did you?
MINOVITZ
Actually I think its first five years, Harold’s parents brought paid something for us.
SEIGEL
Oh did they belong there already?
MINOVITZ
Oh they were very active. His parents were very religious. They went every Friday night and everything and when Mark got up to Kindergarten, I guess we decided you know to buy our membership so when he started kindergarten at 5.
SEIGEL
Were you there when Rabbi Vorspan was there?
MINOVITZ
Yeah he married us.
SEIGEL
Oh really?
MINOVITZ
Yeah he was a neat guy.
SEIGEL
What can you tell us about? We don’t have that many people who can tell us that much about rabbi Vorspan.
MINOVITZ
He was tall and good looking and had two young boys at the time and his wife wasn’t active like some of the rabbi’s wives are. The kids were little, very good looking, very educated and he was very into religion with different churches.
SEIGEL
Like inner faith things?
MINOVITZ
Yeah and they actually offered him money thinking that we couldn’t afford him and that is why he went to University of Judaism and, no he actually just wanted to improve his career and everything when he went there but they actually offered us money if that was one of the reasons he was leaving because they all liked him the inner faith.
SEIGEL
So people within the community at other churches and things offered to help out financially.
MINOVITZ
If it that was the reason he was leaving so that wasn’t the reason he was leaving.
SEIGEL
And was he a pioneer in the concept changing it used to be like the temple had a Hebrew name? Or was it like that changed the Pasadena Jewish Community.
MINOVITZ
I really don’t know anything about it.
SEIGEL
They don’t know was it a whole about anything when they voted on it or changed the name or you know its okay. Do you remember any other ways in which Rabbi Vorspan might have changed that community?
MINOVITZ
He was actually, he was here for five years but we were only married two years when he left.
SEIGEL
And probably he was already there when you joined the temple.
MINOVITZ
He had this thing for young married that went to that was really nice so didn’t anybody every tell you about the history of Frank Ackerman?
SEIGEL
We have bits and pieces right?
MINOVITZ
That was really an interesting time in our temple.
SEIGEL
And that was when the group wanted to split off?
MINOVITZ
Well Frank wanted, in fact we opened the temple in Sierra Madre a little tiny temple.
SEIGEL
What do you remember of it?
MINOVITZ
Well, he was president of the temple and he was like an old dictator and he did it his way or not at all and finally the temple said we have had it and it was very very interesting. Rabbi Galpert who everybody adored was an alcoholic and caused some problems.
SEIGEL
Which no one really will tell us what those are actually.
MINOVITZ
What?
SEIGEL
Well off recording exactly we don’t want to do that.
MINOVITZ
No he really, who idolized him as one group like the Fingerhut.
SEIGEL
Shirley?
MINOVITZ
Well Shirley actually is an old timer. She goes back to, she was at my wedding. The Burmans were parents were old timers and friends of my in-laws but Fingerhuts, the Kays, we still think of them as you know they have been here almost 50 years as new comers, they came in and actually took over the temple and they are clique.
SEIGEL
Who was running the temple before that clique came in?
MINOVITZ
I don’t think it was so cliquish before that.
SEIGEL
It was just who ever was there or..
MINOVITZ
Yeah we went to Friday night quite often.
SEIGEL
Was it as social? We have heard a lot about the pool and barbeques by the pool and all that stuff.
MINOVITZ
We had that, that was fun.
SEIGEL
And was that something that the new group brought in or was it already there?
MINOVITZ
It was there when they came because that’s where I met Ruth Kay.
SEIGEL
Can you think of other things that this new group came in and how they changed the temple?
MINOVITZ
They just took over. I like them, they are nice people.
SEIGEL
Right but they were new comers.
MINOVITZ
Yeah I don’t feel comfortable. I think we were pushed out and they came in, we feel sort of pushed out.
SEIGEL
That’s too bad.
MINOVITZ
I mean Harold was so active you know for so many years.
SEIGEL
So was he kind of sad about that? Did he ever feel a little?
MINOVITZ
Yeah, well they feel like they always say never in their speeches, they feel as this is their home but they took it away from so many people.
SEIGEL
Who were the people, who do you think took over?
MINOVITZ
They all left, people were getting older.
SEIGEL
Right they were always looking for a new group, knell come in but there is not as many of them.
MINOVITZ
But Harold, he was doing special Jews, he didn’t wait to get nominated, he was going to do that no matter what and if anybody left the temple, he was actually hurt like a personal thing and when Cantor Julian went to Arcadia, he wouldn’t talk to anybody who went with him. He took it as a personal insult.
SEIGEL
Yeah like a family rip.
MINOVITZ
Yeah it was really kind of funny.
SEIGEL
Did a lot of people go to Cantor Julian?
MINOVITZ
There was a few that were active in you know.
SEIGEL
And why did cantor Julian leave and why did those people go away?
MINOVITZ
Why did he leave? I think he really wanted to not only be the cantor here, he wanted to be a manager and they didn’t want him to manage. He got a good deal over there.
SEIGEL
I want to ask you about the Minovitz store. I want to ask you about because it sounds like, its kind of unique to have a store.
MINOVITZ
They came from Canada, they opened up a little mama and papa grocery store and they had it for years, they raised three kids.
SEIGEL
Where was it?
MINOVITZ
Walnut and Freer Oaks, on the corner and there was a hotel, the dumpiest hotel. When I met Harold, he was still on service. His mother was sick and so they had to change, the boys didn’t want to work in the grocery store and the father wouldn’t leave it so they turned it into a liquor store.
SEIGEL
The father turned it into a liquor store?
MINOVITZ
Well the boys did.
SEIGEL
The boys did?
MINOVITZ
Harold worked when he got at night, he was allowed to live off campus because he was stationed up at the, this is court house now, one of the big hotels that overlook the Aroya. That’s where the army was stationed there.
SEIGEL
Like where the Ritz Carlton is? The green, not the green. It used to be a hotel, but it is anymore, its right on the, like right at the Colorado street bridge, you come across.
MINOVITZ
Yeah the old bridge.
SEIGEL
That is the Castle Green isn’t that?
MINOVITZ
I think they used it for court houses.
SEIGEL
Yeah you may be right, it might be as a court house.
MINOVITZ
They made it into a hospital in the war.
SEVERAL
Was that the Raymond?
MINOVITZ
No it was higher up, way up in the hills up there. I don’t know why he has never showed it to me. But I think it’s a courthouse or something but is not the green street.
SEIGEL
And that was the military was using that.
MINOVITZ
They turned it into a hospital Harold was stationed there. So he came in the night.
SEIGEL
And helped work in the liquor store.
MINOVITZ
Yeah he and his brother, I was always the first shift, they lost the shirt but their father was patient with them and so we had a liquor store there. When I first met him, they used to have two barrels they kept from the grocery store, one was Herring and one was pickles and they would put their hands into this barrels and his hands smelled for years.
SEIGEL
Well its that sort because this is probably was just the only kosher butcher in the area?
MINOVITZ
His father would go twice a week, like Tuesday and Thursday down to Boyle Heights, the bakery and Sean Penn’s grandfather owned it.
SEIGEL
The bakery?
MINOVITZ
The bakery. This Detroit Bakery and they have took this bread and they filled it up the backseat of this car, no paper underneath it, just loafs of bread.
SEIGEL
Yea right just throw them there.
MINOVITZ
And where people sat there with their feet, I am thinking back of how clean we are today, they just threw the bread back and I used to go with them for the ride. Sean Penn’s father was working there at the time when he was writing and trying to get into acting and I was a young bride, very pregnant and I have talked to him a several times so this is interesting and one of Sean Penn’s movies, the one when he is slightly retarded and has a little girl, he says in the movie, my grandfather had a bakery and that was true. He says this in the movie and I tell everybody listen for that because its true. So it was the Detroit Bakery. Now the funniest thing about it is that Bank of America that was on the other corner, my son owns it now for a El Pollo Loco.
SEIGEL
Oh that same like there is an El Pollo Loco on Colorado.
MINOVITZ
No this is in Boyle Heights. Its horrible. I went there once and never went back.
SEIGEL
I want to see if you know a little bit about, is Harold father’s story that was a kosher butcher right and he opened a store. Do you know about when they started to open a store in Pasadena, when that might have been?
MINOVITZ
It had to be in early 20s.
SEIGEL
Was it always kosher right from the get go?
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah she was very kosher. She had different dish towels, different dishes, she was very very kosher.
SEIGEL
And was it mostly like a butcher.
MINOVITZ
He cut meat.
SEIGEL
He cut meat so people and did he have a pretty group of Jews in the area that were common and purchased that he was..
MINOVITZ
I mean they made a living, you know.
SEIGEL
And before 1946.
SEVERAL
That’s when it became a liquor store.
SEIGEL
Okay so before it became a liquor store, what kind of stuff, that we heard they sell bread, they sliced meat.
MINOVITZ
Hunks of butter that they weighed and cut off and hunks of sweet butter.
SEIGEL
And pickles in barrels obviously, herring in barrels. Did they have customers that were not Jewish?
MINOVITZ
Yeah I think they liked the bread yeah, they came in with the bread.
SEIGEL
Was it like rye bread or was it just bread?
MINOVITZ
Bread and holly. They had both.
SEIGEL
But the baker wasn’t Jewish, was the baker at Boyle Heights?
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah it was kosher in those days. Detroit Bakery, yeah that was kosher bread.
SEIGEL
And the customers, were they mostly women would come in and buy meat, or stuff, do you have any recollection of?
MINOVITZ
Yeah I know when I actually got into the store, it was already a liquor store so I really don’t think I ever went in.
SEIGEL
Okay. Do you ever remembering seeing like do they have a sign outside in Hebrew or would you have known to drive by it?
MINOVITZ
But I think he stayed open on Saturday.
SEIGEL
So he kept kosher food but he wasn’t religious in his operations.
MINOVITZ
He was, that’s what I think, I am pretty sure they needed the money.
SEIGEL
So they stayed open.
MINOVITZ
So I think he stayed open or went to temple and then opened up at noon or something.
SEIGEL
Do you know if that was a place where Jews would meet?
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah all the gossip.
SEIGEL
So the gossip kind of went through the store?
MINOVITZ
There were a lot of Jewish merchants of Ferrous.
SEIGEL
Could you tell me more about that?
MINOVITZ
There was electrician, you had such a fabulous memory.
SEIGEL
Its okay, so also the temple, there was a small temple at that time or that was before that on Walnut?
MINOVITZ
There was a little temple but that was gone when I got married in 1949.
SEIGEL
I am just wondering is when they put that store there, they have put it there because it was walking distance to the temple like if there was, that makes sense in terms of the timing.
MINOVITZ
It could have been, why they picked that corner.
SEIGEL
And why that area had a lot of Jewish merchants.
MINOVITZ
Fair Oaks had a lot of merchants.
SEIGEL
And did Jewish people tend to want to go to Jewish owned stores?
MINOVITZ
Yeah I think they were close. Close knit group.
SEIGEL
So the reason it changed to liquor store is that, Harold and his brother would have thought they were more comfortable with that or they thought it was a better business?
MINOVITZ
They thought they would make more money.
SEIGEL
Yeah and then you said the first year was a little rough though.
MINOVITZ
Oh God they didn’t know what they were doing.
SEIGEL
Yeah so how did they figure it out?
MINOVITZ
Just hit and miss.
SEIGEL
Yeah, did they eventually become success for him?
MINOVITZ
Yeah they eventually owned three stores and they bought two others.
SEIGEL
What happened to the people who ate kosher after they closed the kosher?
MINOVITZ
There was another one in Colorado but he was semi-kosher.
SEIGEL
You had another kosher store?
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEIGEL
Like a deli.
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEIGEL
And when did you have idea because that’s obviously not there anymore.
MINOVITZ
No they didn’t do well, but it wasn’t kosher, it just had deli foods.
SEIGEL
So you could buy some of like deli like pastrami or something.
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEIGEL
And once it was a liquor store, it was still selling the bread? The kosher bread?
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah.
SEIGEL
Oh really like everybody loved the bread.
MINOVITZ
Everybody wanted the bread, their bread was great, still good.
SEIGEL
Maybe get you a bottle of liquor and you can get a bread too.
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEIGEL
And do you know anything about Deli Meat, is that a brand?
SEVERAL
Yeah there was a reference or a notice and a, there was a publication at PJTC called the, I don’t know the temple news or something and there was a notice in there from 1962, 1963 stating that Deli Meat was no longer going to regularly sell kosher meat and it said that they have been doing it for seven years I think and it said that people who still wanted to kosher, could place an order with Deli Meat and another I guess the wholesaler and they will arrange to have the kosher brought to them in meat where you could still buy it, you know with a special order but they were not going to be regularly selling it.
MINOVITZ
I think he had meat delivered to him, I think in bulk because I know he sliced it and make lamb chops and stuff like that.
SEIGEL
So it was definitely both butchering and deli.
MINOVITZ
Yeah. And how he learned the trade I don’t know.
SEIGEL
And Harold, he worked in the store when it was you know the meat store.
MINOVITZ
Yeah he had a help yeah.
SEIGEL
And then when he and his brother were running the liquor store, did they have anybody working in the store with them? Did they have job?
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah.
SEIGEL
Do you remember any of them?
MINOVITZ
They were all black.
SEIGEL
Okay and what about the customers, were the customers were, when it became a liquor store, did they keep, was it still mostly Jewish customers or what kind of customers?
MINOVITZ
Times were changing.
SEIGEL
Yeah and the neighborhood was changing. So do you have any, I guess trying to say remember did it become mostly, did the neighborhood become mostly black and there were black customers?
MINOVITZ
Yes.
SEIGEL
Do you remember about when that was, time wise?
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEIGEL
Was that the 60s?
MINOVITZ
We got married and moved to Arcadia and of course on freeways it took about 45 minutes to get to work.
SEIGEL
Oh really? Do you know anything about when the built the new temple? Were you involved in all of that when they built that?
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah I was really young, I was pregnant with Laurie and I had two boys. In those days you didn’t know the sex of the baby, and rabbi Galpert is up there and he says, and I don’t know, you know I wasn’t friendly with him personally, he says don’t pray for the sex of the child, pray for the health and the wisdom of the child, pray for guidance to you raise this child, I wanted a girl, I wanted to pray for a girl, I had two boys and I never forgot that sermon.
SEIGEL
And you got a girl.
MINOVITZ
I got my girl.
SEIGEL
So you worked out that’s for sure.
MINOVITZ
Yeah I got girl, then I got two more after that.
SEIGEL
Well I am just trying to think about the time here because I know you sound like when you joined the temple, they already had a pool.
MINOVITZ
No they didn’t. They did that years later.
SEIGEL
Because I thought that when you were in BBG, you might have gone to some event and you said there was a pool there.
MINOVITZ
What was that called Wagner’s next door where the Convalescent Hospital is today, there was a swimming pool there and you pay to get in.
SEIGEL
It was like you pay to go through.
MINOVITZ
Yeah but it was closed at night.
SEIGEL
So it wasn’t a temple property?
MINOVITZ
No and I don’t know why the temple didn’t buy some of that property, it was for sale and they put the Convalescent Home in and then years later, they put that dialysis thing there, that’s recent.
SEIGEL
So they could all that property was open at one point.
MINOVITZ
Right and the pool, I don’t know why they didn’t, it was a public pool and you paid to get in, there is only one around here so everybody went but you had to pay in and it wasn’t owned by Jewish people or anything.
SEIGEL
But it didn’t discriminate that anyone could go there.
MINOVITZ
Oh this was years later, that was okay then.
SEIGEL
How did your kids feel growing up? Did they feel comfortable in school?
MINOVITZ
I don’t think they had any problems that I know of, not like I did growing up but I don’t think Harold had as much problems in Pasadena.
SEIGEL
But Glendale was worse?
MINOVITZ
At the Roosevelt it was free swimming on Tuesday during the summer but you couldn’t swim, blacks can only swim on, I forgot when, they only could swim one or two days, they days they were going to drain the pool and he had a very close friend who was named, Freelander, what was his first name? At that time he was dark complexion and he was not allowed to swim with them, and he said oh but he is Jewish, its okay, so he said drop your pants and show if you are circumcised. And they finally let him in but blacks were not allowed to swim with the whites.
SEIGEL
My dad’s story is that he went down to Mexico and they didn’t want to let him back into California because they thought he was Mexican, he had dark complexion. So do you remember any controversy around building that main sanctuary and the pool and silver building you know, do you remember what was going on in the temple at all?
MINOVITZ
No.
SEIGEL
So you weren’t involved.
MINOVITZ
I had little teeny kids, Harold might have been involved but I wasn’t.
SEIGEL
Do you remember if there were orthodox services going on at the temple at that time, did they use the temple?
MINOVITZ
It was always that.
SEIGEL
Oh so it was always an orthodox service as well as?
MINOVITZ
Even my father would go to. When I had the boys he didn’t do it for it because he was angry but when Laurie was born, he named her at the temple on the Saturday morning and that was just a few men.
SEIGEL
Was it just like the minion that would run the service themselves?
MINOVITZ
Yes.
SEIGEL
They didn’t have, did the rabbi come to the orthodox service?
MINOVITZ
I don’t know if he came or not.
SEIGEL
Just like the men showed up and did their own thing.
MINOVITZ
Because then a couple of months later, I named her in the little sanctuary on the Friday night and made a big deal, you know I served food, At that time I thought I was doing a lot.
SEIGEL
Oh so you were doing a lot. And were you involved with sisterhood at all?
MINOVITZ
I was very active until, actually I stopped being active when Jackie Sensor was working and she became president and so everything went at night and I didn’t want to go out at night, even then when I was young.
SEIGEL
Right they moved the main site, but a lot of women started working at that time.
MINOVITZ
Yeah a lot of women started working at that time and we were always at home women and then that new phase went in and women would start to go to work and so I just sort of lost interest and didn’t do that much during the day but I was active.
SEIGEL
Do you remember Shakespeare club, does that ring a bell?
MINOVITZ
Vaguely but I didn’t have anything to do with it.
SEIGEL
Okay do you remember anything about how they got torahs? Like through donation or fundraising for torahs? Do you have any memories around that?
MINOVITZ
Oh I remember somebody brought one from Europe and it was a big deal. I don’t remember too much about it.
SEIGEL
Do you know the person who did it or?
MINOVITZ
Cooperman I think, wasn’t that the Coopermans?
SEIGEL
Did Coopermans bring in the torah?
MINOVITZ
I think they brought it, I can be wrong.
SEIGEL
Was it kind of holocaust surviving torah, was it that kind when you say brought from Europe?
MINOVITZ
Somehow it was smuggled into Mexico and then brought in that way.
SEIGEL
Nadine and Marlene Goodstein’s bat mitzvahs. They were the first two girls to have a bat mitzvah at the temple.
MINOVITZ
I remember their wedding.
SEIGEL
Do you remember anything about their bat mitzvah.
MINOVITZ
No but they sure were a pain in the neck they used to come into the store and tease us while I was keeping Harold company at night, yeah little brats.
SEIGEL
Oh really?
MINOVITZ
Long braids, longest down to their waist.
SEIGEL
Oh then your daughter came along probably bat mitzvah was a standard practice?
MINOVITZ
My first two girls had it on the Friday night, Harold would not let them being on the beama because he was old fashioned buy the time Dana got who was quite a bit younger, she had a Saturday.
SEIGEL
Oh really so how did you feel about that? Did you get involved?
MINOVITZ
You know that Harold said Sunday school is a must, there is no question. You go to public school, you go to Sunday school, there is no question. The kids said I got to go to the beach, all my friends are going. He said there is no discussion. I mean Harold ran this household, there is no discussion.
SEIGEL
No discussion? Wow.
MINOVITZ
No. He said there would be no Friday night, I don’t believe the women on the beama, I think it was something like Marsha Albert who said to him, you don’t understand, or Marilyn who had three girls. You don’t understand, we have girls, we don’t have boys.
SEIGEL
Right and they wanted to..
MINOVITZ
And we want our daughters to do this and he was so against it, he fought them but then by the time Dana came, everybody was doing it so he said okay.
SEIGEL
What about when Marsha was adult woman to read torah, how did he react to that?
MINOVITZ
He probably didn’t like it but you know, he didn’t say anything. I mean everybody likes Marsha so he probably the same thing but I think down deep, he said uh huh.
SEIGEL
Do you remember like may be the first time you went to a female bat mitzvah, like even on the Friday night, was it like, because it seems like it would have been a big change. Do you remember going to anybody else’s?
MINOVITZ
Yeah I was kinda jealous because my kids couldn’t have, Laurie was you know older but I never said anything. You don’t question Harold.
SEIGEL
Yeah wow.
MINOVITZ
Dana had to go to a psychiatrist when she was in college. She had some problems and she said something about her father, we didn’t make waves. I thought it was so interesting. My father did it his way and she said, didnt you question him? And she said we don’t make waves. We never question Harold. I mean he was a wonderful father, he was an ACA adviser and all out guy but the temple had to be his way and not, and there was no discussion, it was just we go to Sunday school every Sunday, and there is no such thing, the beach is afterwards, skiing is afterwards, even when the kids were older.
SEIGEL
Did he have the store open on Saturday, liquor store was open on Saturday?
MINOVITZ
Yeah you know, I didn’t keep kosher, I didn’t know anything about it and it bothered him for a first couple of years, no help me I’ll do it for you. When we bought a house in a desert and I said okay, we can have this kosher because we are coming in from the scratch and my neighbor next door is kosher so she will help me, he says not only, that its okay.
SEIGEL
Did he eat differently in other words like some people even though they don’t keep a kosher home, they will never eat pork. Was he like that, was he someone who….?
MINOVITZ
He finally tasted bacon, my mother always had it in the house and he didn’t know it and he tasted and liked it but when Mark went away to school, he happened to have a room with Jim Schaffer kept kosher and my oldest son really liked, we stopped using bacon because he didn’t want us to and you know you are a college kid and Mark keeps semi kosher. He doesn’t have any pork or anything in the house, he doesn’t eat it and shrimp or things like that. So Mark has observed it somewhat.
SEIGEL
Yeah its an experience where being exposed to other kids influences.
MINOVITZ
Until his last two to three years, all my kids belonged to a temple and now only Sherry belongs now and that hurts, Harold would be horrified.
SEIGEL
Why did they leave, do you think?
MINOVITZ
I think it was money with Mark, money two households, just divorced and his second wife couldn’t care less but Kerry left and its really kind of sad. He belonged in the valley for 25 or 30 years and the rabbi committed suicide. It’s a temple on White Oak, and he blamed the congregation and Marissa had just gotten bat mitzvahed and they were real close. The rabbi did the preschool the kids went and he came in every Friday, they had a service and they were real close to the rabbi and the rabbi did something, three small children, the wife was forgiving him but the congregation was firing him and he committed suicide. Now what he did, I don’t know. Whether he had a male friend or female friend, but the congregation would not have him but the wife was for the children’s sake, Kerry went to a couple of meetings and he yelled at these people saying he is our rabbi, we stand behind him and he was angry at the community and they walked out on that temple and never went back.
SEIGEL
It was not the congregation’s fault though.
MINOVITZ
And then of course you know Marissa, the third kid was already bar mitzvahed and they never went to joined another temple.
SEIGEL
Its just so sad. I want to ask you, you mentioned about how rabbi Galpert had his fan base you know, the people who really liked him, tell me do you remember him making like political comments in his sermons at all? Talking about anything?
MINOVITZ
No his sermons were great, they were great.
SEIGEL
What kind of things that he generally talked about besides praying for healthy child?
MINOVITZ
No, they were great sermons and when he was sober, he was very very good, when he was not so sober, it was kind of embarrassing.
SEIGEL
So you could actually tell?
MINOVITZ
When he did the Weese’s wedding, Bill Weese’s son, he was really high here. I think she must have converted, rabbi Galpert would bend a little if he liked the person and then if he didn’t think too highly of him, he wouldn’t bend at all, that he was really drunk at that wedding and it was really kind of embarrassing for all the Jewish people that were there.
SEIGEL
Yeah a lot of people actually spoke to him and sort of let him know that you know put him on probation or any kind of stuff happened?
MINOVITZ
I don’t know. I think Josh Pace was president at that time when Roger’s mother died, Roger Brown, and the temple city ______ all evening long and Harold called Josh and said you get that rabbi there I don’t care what time it is at night, he should’ve been here by now.
SEIGEL
Oh and he was not there.
MINOVITZ
And I think Josh present and said you get the rabbi there or else you are gonna lose the Browns, at that time they had quite a bit of money but yeah they did big supporters to the temple and there was no excuse for him not to have been there that whole evening and make it housecall.
SEIGEL
Yeah because I heard he didn’t really make housecalls.
MINOVITZ
No he didn’t do a lot of things.
SEIGEL
Go to hospitals and things like that.
MINOVITZ
Yeah. He did go where he liked.
SEIGEL
Oh if he liked the people, he went, not everybody.
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEIGEL
Do you remember, at one time the Flame was like a sisterhood publication and then it became a congregation publication?
MINOVITZ
Ruth Layman used to run that Flame so it could have been sisterhood.
SEIGEL
Because we are trying to figure out when that happened, when it might have switched from being sisterhood to congregation?
MINOVITZ
Probably when she died, she gave it up. Anybody ever talked about Ruth Layman?
SEVERAL
Yeah people have mentioned her and you know going through publications of the temple, her name keeps coming up.
MINOVITZ
Yeah she really wrote the Flame, did a good job but did it single-handedly.
SEIGEL
All by herself?
MINOVITZ
Yeah I think so.
SEIGEL
Now its much bigger production.
MINOVITZ
She married to a doctor who left her for another woman and she was devastated but she did work at the temple.
SEIGEL
And what about the gift shop, the Sancter shop?
MINOVITZ
When I first got involved with the sisterhood, there were two women, they lived in San Marino and I think then Shirley Cone and Marlene took over and Marlene is still with it.
SEIGEL
Yeah its true. Do you remember when that was, they took over or when they opened? Or any approximate years?
MINOVITZ
Oh it was open when my kids were, because I got the invitations from her and I went to somebody’s house in San Marino. There was the Wednesday Nighters, you have heard about them?
SEVERAL
Yeah I have heard about it but…
MINOVITZ
Okay the Wednesday, Oh my in-laws wanted to be invited. Aunt Dorothy Uncle Luke Fabish. Lou and Dorothy Fabish. Okay they had few bucks and that was Sara Minovitz’s sister and they were in the Wednesday Nighters and I am trying to think of who else.
SEIGEL
What was a Wednesday Nighters?
MINOVITZ
Well that was the elite club of the temple, the wealthy ones, the ones that had few bucks and these two women lived in San Marino, and I wish I can remember their names, and you would’ve loved Harold, he would’ve remembered everything.
SEIGEL
Its okay.
MINOVITZ
Anyway, the Wednesday Nighters, the two women, they were running the gift shop, I don’t think it was called the Sanctor shop, it was just a gift shop and they did invitations and they give you a discount and they helped you through your.
SEIGEL
Yeah and this Wednesday night thing was a social event that two ladies would trade?
MINOVITZ
No it was just a social coupler thing and I don’t know who was involved in it.
SEIGEL
And they got each other’s home and entertain or something like that?
MINOVITZ
Yeah I don’t think they used the temple.
SEIGEL
Because we have heard about some entertainment that went on the temple, for some people always events happened at the temple and for some people, there were events you know outside in their homes.
MINOVITZ
The Wednesday Nighters were really very sophisticated group and it was older group because Harold’s folks wanted to badly to be invited. They never made the grade.
SEVERAL
Who was in the Wednesday Nighters?
MINOVITZ
I know the Fabishes, I got a picture, I just came across the other night, I got in the mail from my brother in law, the Sobers, the Melvins.
SEIGEL
Its like all the men, where the women? Its just like the movers and shakers guys.
MINOVITZ
This is Phil Sober, Dev Eleven’s father, she is not in the temple, and here’s Danny Leibel.
SEIGEL
Oh like Ryan Leibel, right, L.E.I.B.E.L., mother, what’s the father name I don’t remember.
MINOVITZ
Todd and Elaine.
SEIGEL
His father.
MINOVITZ
Yeah Todd’s father, this is Kievman, oh you know he was real active in everything, Goldman, Arthur Goldman. Goodman? Goodman.
SEIGEL
I think we interviewed his daughter.
MINOVITZ
No he’s gone. He and his wife were bloodgended, he beat up and killed, it was really devastating and was really frightening.
SEIGEL
It happened here in Pasadena?
MINOVITZ
It happened in Pasadena, they lived in Altadena. This is Melvin. He was real active and everything.
SEVERAL
Where was this picture taken?
MINOVITZ
My handwriting, I came across this, I was mailing to my brother in law to see if he remembered anything.
SEIGEL
It looks like next the social hall room may be?
MINOVITZ
Wolman?
SEIGEL
May be the paneling is high and the entrance way room.
MINOVITZ
This is Lou Fabrish, he has been gone.
SEIGEL
It’s nicer paneling. May be they dropped the ceiling at some point.
MINOVITZ
Look at the sideburns.
SEIGEL
That would be a shame. Ahh Who is that in front?
MINOVITZ
I don’t remember his name. Somebody took the things off.
SEIGEL
I am just trying to stay steady.
MINOVITZ
When I have the kids here, I take the couch and bring it over here and you know I bring another table in. Those are my kids.
SEIGEL
You know I would love to go through fun pictures, we can go through afterwards, definitely I will do that. I just want to ask some specific questions, one is do you, in 1969, the temple was doing braille transcribing, does that ring a bell?
MINOVITZ
Oh who did that, that was Webber, Monica Webber was running that.
SEIGEL
And do you remember anything more than that like how many people were involved? How people got taught to do, I guess she taught a class may be and they learned how?
MINOVITZ
I don’t know why she was into it.
SEIGEL
And you were head of sisterhood in 1971 or you want to know who the head of sisterhood was in 1971?
SEVERAL
I don’t know, that may be Danley.
SEIGEL
Okay alright, somewhere out there. Were you involved in organizing a new year’s dance in 1969? Do you remember anything like that?
MINOVITZ
I could have been. I don’t know.
SEIGEL
Do you remember when the temple started having dances or any temple dances that standout in your memory?
MINOVITZ
I know they were boring.
SEIGEL
They were boring?
MINOVITZ
Well Harold would always run the liquor department, always be a bartender. So I was always left by myself.
SEIGEL
Oh so here is your working kind of so was it really a social evening?
MINOVITZ
Yeah it was social for him, standing and pouring the liquor and talking to everybody and having a great time and I was like walk around small talkative you know all the time, I was always bored.
SEIGEL
Were you corresponding secretary of the board in 1969?
MINOVITZ
I know I was vice president and Marlene Seigel was president and our kids were both about 5 or 6 years old at the time.
SEIGEL
Did the kids get together a lot? Like your kids, her kids, other kids?
MINOVITZ
They were growing up yeah. Shirley and Sherry are about a week apart and Jeff across the street is about two weeks, we ran a wonderful carpool to the temple, Lisa Hoffman, Shirley’s daughter is one day older than Sherry, the Phillip’s daughter, her birthday was 11th so she was two weeks younger and so it was five of us right around here and all the same age within two or three weeks so yeah the kids got together a lot. Yeah she had a good time. Now when Dana came along, six years later, when she had Sunday school class there were only three or four kids in a class and it was awful but Sherry had 30, Laurie went through confirmation.
SEIGEL
It wasn’t that the temple wasn’t smaller then and just some classes had more kids.
MINOVITZ
The boys didn’t go through confirmation, they had had it after.
SEIGEL
Do you remember Irving Burg?
MINOVITZ
Yeah. What about him?
SEIGEL
I don’t know, what do you remember about him?
SEVERAL
Actually I interviewed him a couple of weeks ago and I..
MINOVITZ
Irvin Burg, is he still living? How old is he 90?
SEVERAL
92.
MINOVITZ
Okay.
SEVERAL
He mentions that he started the Yom Kippur appeal in which they were raising money for what became The Louis B Silver Building and he told the rabbi this would be wonderful opportunity to fundraise and Yom Kippur, temple would have the most people there.
SEIGEL
They never did it before that?
SEVERAL
According to him, they did.
MINOVITZ
I don’t know, I wouldn’t have paid any attention to. I do know they went at the high holidays, Harold was religious, he would stay in the back of the beama and write down what everybody gave and he would say to them that’s not enough. For the honor, you have given, that’s not enough. He took it upon himself and I don’t know how he got away with it, say you want that honor, you pay this and this, at least this much if not more.
SEIGEL
So he wouldn’t negotiate with them as they came up for their.
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah you didn’t see him, but he left about 8:30 in the morning to go to temple and if I wasn’t there by 10 o’clock and if I walked in, I got the dirtiest look with the kids from the beama, he let us all know, everybody knew I was late and the look Harold would give me, how dare you be late.
SEIGEL
I have heard that people who would give an honor would whisper like to the Gabi how much they were giving and then he would say in Hebrew so that’s his honor has donated so much money, like that was actually said out loud.
MINOVITZ
Yeah and Mickey Seigel was the one who sat behind me and would tell me what they said.
SEIGEL
Oh really so you got to know how much they were giving and then he would negotiate with them it sounds like a little.
MINOVITZ
No Mickey Seigel would tell me and then says Harold is not going to approve of that and sure enough a few minutes later, they announced the guy gave more. He would start to walk off and Harold would say uh huh.
SEIGEL
And was that all done in Hebrew the amount that they gave you think?
MINOVITZ
Harold would know.
SEIGEL
So if you didn’t have an honor, how did you donate at the high holidays I wonder? Was it did everyone get an honor of some sort?
MINOVITZ
No no.
SEIGEL
But that’s how they raise the money was really through the honors.
MINOVITZ
No and then they had the appeals. Somebody, not the president, sometimes the president of the temple would get up but usually it was somebody else, speaker Marilynn did it one year, she was a beautiful one, and sometimes they were very moving and sometimes they were pretty corny but…
SEIGEL
Do you remember when the temple at one point had an executive director?
MINOVITZ
Anita Louise. She was great.
SEIGEL
And what were her jobs, like what kinds of things?
MINOVITZ
Running the temple.
SEIGEL
Really? So she managed kind of the job that Bruce does now plus running programs and all that stuff.
MINOVITZ
Whatever she did I don’t know but she was great.
SEIGEL
Do you know why she left?
MINOVITZ
We didn’t have the money. She actually went into something to do with prisons, Harold opened an school downtown in LA and she got in touch with him and took him around to all the women prisons to get them, if they could be rehabilitated, so they can get out of the prison early and go to school and he and his brother opened after they sold liquor stores for three to four years, couldn’t find themselves, didn’t know Harold was about 40 at that time and we just had Dana, which was late in life to have this 5th kid and Harold was disgruntled at the stores that had been robbed enough.
SEIGEL
Was it just it got dangerous?
MINOVITZ
My brother in law, who is, Harold and Donald are a year and two days apart and Donald was more aggressive than Harold so they balanced each other out. But Donald walked out one day and said I am not coming back. The employees aren’t even sharing with us, taking so dam much, the watches were gone anyway, it was a rough business in those days so he walked out and then they tried to find something. What they finally after playing around, they opened a school downtown LA, broadway Los Angeles business college and it did really well, it was like four year school and anyway, Anita Louise took Harold around and introduced him to all the women prisons, who were involved somehow after that she left and they were able to get out of the prison and they had kids, they got in prisons from the employees that worked at the prison got the girls pregnant and it was terrible. So they had a nursery school upstairs and they went to school and the government paid for it.
SEIGEL
That’s a good business.
MINOVITZ
It’s a good program and Anita Louise, she helped him, quite a bit. They had a lunch and they had a restaurant, really a fabulous restaurant, between, it was often New York, it was called Eaton Canyon, it was right, one of the heavy rains knocked the whole thing out so we had a luncheon for her at this restaurant when she was leaving Altadena and Bernice said maybe I am pregnant and I think I am and she said oh my God I’ll kill myself.
SEIGEL
Is it New York or what I am just curious like Allen?
MINOVITZ
No no, the Altadena drive you know where the temple is, and it was between Sierra Madre but no right near the temple, It was walking distance.
SEIGEL
I can imagine where it would have been.
MINOVITZ
Right in the hills in there, fabulous restaurant. Never rebuilt it, now there are swim places but it was in the hills and it was made out of wood and it was very antique looking, fabulous food. Everybody at the temple that had small children would walk down to the corner, they had a restaurant, the temple went on for so longer than high holidays so we go down there and have lunch, all the guys would be in temple, all the girls and the kids were down there.
SEIGEL
Was it okay on Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanah?
MINOVITZ
Probably both.
SEIGEL
Let me get through a few last things, we’re almost done, do you remember if there was any special fees that people wanted to use the pool that they had to pay more in their membership or did outside?
MINOVITZ
I think you joined the pool.
SEIGEL
The pool was a separate join.
MINOVITZ
They joined the pool. Do you remember the pool? It was very very flexible.
SEIGEL
So you couldn’t really pay, they might work with you on that?
MINOVITZ
I don’t remember, you paid for but then nobody out to check tickets and what’s name, he is a friend of Mark’s, he was lifeguard for years, going to college, Mark, Mark would know but he and his brother were the lifeguards.
SEIGEL
So they had like they had real lifeguards and everything and it was supervised?
MINOVITZ
Yeah they always had a lifeguard there when it was open.
SEIGEL
Do you remember the desegregation of Pasadena schools when that happened?
MINOVITZ
Yeah we all fought that.
SEIGEL
And you had your kids in school at that time?
MINOVITZ
I had, Sherry and Dana. Sherry was bussed to Washington and Dana was young so when she finished at Don Vinita, we put her at High Point.
SEIGEL
Oh my kids were in there.
MINOVITZ
Sherry would not go to private school.
SEIGEL
Wow she was already in high school at that point.
MINOVITZ
No she finished her 6th grade at Washington and went to Washington Junior High, but she would not go to private school. We fought it because we had a token black couple that was put in deliberately two doors up, their kids were same age as mine and they were at Fields, okay, next door, who is still there, it was a chief of police. His kid went to Fields, so hell, why there is another kid go to school so we fought it, and Sherry she wanted to go with her friends and that’s nothing we can do about. She was strong, anyways, Dana was flexible and we put her in private school and we said we’ll will show you, the deal we couldn’t have cared less so she went to High Point right on the corner in my neighbor cross street and the Vanderberks were on the other side, we were in the carpool and then she went to Flintridge.
SEIGEL
And do you remember in the temple was it the people within the people organized, was the Jewish community organized in terms of having to taking a stand or fighting the desegregation or being for it or do you remember anything? But you told you individually fought it.
MINOVITZ
We wanted neighborhood schools.
SEIGEL
So you and your neighborhood.
MINOVITZ
We don’t want a bus hours out..
SEIGEL
So its more like you organized with your friends and your.
MINOVITZ
So when I picked the kids up, Harold would still have the store and we would stopping by, get cookies and stuff from Harold and ice cream and stuff like that on my way home, but the days of Hebrew school, they only had about half hour to pick the kids up and get them something to eat and get into Hebrew school until 6 o'clock at night, it really was a rough time for us so.
SEIGEL
Do you know anything about rabbi Mandick who was the education director? Does that ring a bell?
MINOVITZ
No.
SEIGEL
Well that concludes my formal part so normally what happens now, Michael is going to ask if he has some questions that he feels he needs to know more and then before I go, I want you to show me your wedding picture and you Katuba I think over there is that right?
MINOVITZ
That was our 50th; our kids did that for us.
SEIGEL
Oh really it’s very nice. I would like to go and look at that.
SEVERAL
Listen, you were born in Boyle Heights?
MINOVITZ
Yeah probably.
SEIGEL
Do you remember what hospital you were born in?
MINOVITZ
California Hospital.
SEVERAL
How old were you when your family?
MINOVITZ
I was 8 when we moved to Glendale.
SEVERAL
Okay from Boyle Heights.
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEVERAL
And what year was that? Was it before?
MINOVITZ
Let’s see I’m 80 years old, so 8 years, can you figure it out?
SEIGEL
No I am not good in that.
SEVERAL
Let’s see so it would be 1976.
MINOVITZ
Round about that yeah.
SEVERAL
Where you met Harold, was at a social event in Pasadena?
MINOVITZ
I guess it was really BBYO and the BBYM by then because we were.
SEIGEL
And that was at that pool that was etched to the temple?
MINOVITZ
Oh no actually the temple had an affair and they had the ____ then and they bought a keg of beer and they didn’t know how to open it, we get the beer out so, the pool I don’t know I just took a walk. We made a deal, we five girls drove over and nobody would leave one girl alone, of course they all found guys and I was left alone so I took a walk to the pool and I guess he saw me and he walked over to the pool to talk to me, such a cute guy, so any way that’s how, I remember standing by the pool, it was a locked and stand there talking to him.
SEVERAL
So the pool wasn’t used as part of the social?
MINOVITZ
No it had nothing to do with us, it was just there, I don’t think the temple used it as a social thing ever.
SEIGEL
So were you in the old social hall the one that’s next to Wolman, is that what they call it, next to Nell chapel, we have the social hall.
MINOVITZ
Yeah that’s where we partied.
SEIGEL
Is that where they had the party?
MINOVITZ
No we had the big parking lot then, yeah we didn’t have the big building.
SEIGEL
Oh so it was bigger parking lot, so it went all the way over where the building is now?
MINOVITZ
Yeah so you walk over the pool would be
SEIGEL
Where in that part was lawn at one time, at one time part of that parking lot was grass.
MINOVITZ
Yeah the center.
SEIGEL
Oh the center was grass and they had like a parking lot all around the grass.
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEVERAL
When rabbi Vorspan was rabbi, did he bring you any speakers?
MINOVITZ
You know I was only married a couple of years but everybody loved him, everybody really liked him, very liked, of course he went to the University of Judaism and did very well there so.
SEIGEL
So the temple was his launch pad in a way.
MINOVITZ
Yeah one of his kids is a rabbi, United about 10 years ago.
SEVERAL
The barrels of Herring, where they on the street or where they in the store?
MINOVITZ
As you go in the door, the two barrels were on the either side of the door.
SEIGEL
If you were a customer, did you go and then grab or own pickle or did they grab it for them?
MINOVITZ
No I didn’t want to smell. He put his hand in and got up his own elbow.
SEIGEL
And then you put it in like a little paper sack I guess you didn’t have probably have plastic then.
MINOVITZ
They wrapped it in paper. I remember like the butcher paper on the big roll he tore it off.
SEIGEL
Yeah, I wish they had the pickle barrel still.
SEVERAL
So when you were married to Harold the store was a liquor store but it still sold kosher bread at that time and?
MINOVITZ
I think he still had the butter too.
SEVERAL
Where did they get the butter do you recall?
MINOVITZ
It was delivered but it wasn’t packaged, I remember it being in.
SEIGEL
In a big slab?
MINOVITZ
And you cut off a thing and put it on, I got the scale in the garage, I got the old cash register which I’ve run over it twice with the car, I mean I am alone now, and with one car in the garage and it’s a double garage and I run over this cash register, you figure it out, I got a flat tire but I got the scale, I am not allowed to sell it but nobody will take it.
SEIGEL
Oh kids want you to keep it because it’s sentimental.
MINOVITZ
Yeah my brother in law who is still living says you can’t get rid of it, and I say, why don’t you take it?
SEVERAL
So how long did they sell the kosher breads? Did he continue selling the kosher breads all the way until he finally got rid of the stores?
MINOVITZ
No I think when my father in law finally decide not to work so much, I don’t know it was gradual, we wanted the bread even for ourselves and even so you know special customers stuff like that, if you ordered it you got the bread.
SEIGEL
Did your father in law continued to work in the store when it was a liquor store, like he helped?
MINOVITZ
He came in at lunchtime and gave the guys break, when I first married Harold, the store was open till 2 in the morning so one would work the day shift, one work at night, so my father in law was great, he would come in and let the kids go out for lunch and we moved to Altadena after about five years and then they opened a store on Lake and Harold ran the Lake store and Donald did the Fair Oaks one.
SEIGEL
Where was this store?
MINOVITZ
My father in law would go to both stores.
SEIGEL
Where was the store on Lake?
MINOVITZ
Just below Orange Grove.
SEIGEL
Okay and where did you live in Altadena?
MINOVITZ
We lived on Catherine Road.
SEIGEL
Oh I know where that is.
MINOVITZ
Little dead end street, cute little house.
SEIGEL
And what made you move over here?
MINOVITZ
We moved here because, well we moved here, Harold thought this was much more Jewish neighborhood, more Jewish people. Well the Kays moved, the Alberts, and the Paces moved, well Seipert died but Seipert was up the street.
SEVERAL
Phillips lived.
MINOVITZ
Phillips Brown lived…
SEIGEL
So everyone was in this area and then a lot of them moved down the hill.
MINOVITZ
Yeah Gloria Seigel, Marlene Seigel, I mean a lot of Jewish families lived in this hill and that’s what he wanted, he wanted his kids to be associated with more Jewish kids and so we moved here gave up my cute little house and then of course I kept having kids.
SEIGEL
Some people told us that they didn’t feel like in the 60s as Jews welcomed at the Altadena Town and Country Club and some people said?
MINOVITZ
Definitely not.
SEIGEL
How did you know that though, like how would you know?
MINOVITZ
I don’t know, it was certainly like an unwritten law, a couple of places Harold, he was a great golfer, and there was a couple of places he couldn’t play golf. He met somebody at the Lakes and invited him over to Altadena and he said I can’t get on there, he said I am half Jewish; I’ll get you on so he played it. I said why did you want to? He said I just wanted to see how the other…..
SEIGEL
How the other world is, right.
MINOVITZ
But I think today its okay, Altadena is definitely no.
SEIGEL
Some places, there’s still a few places. The world is Valley Hunt is still not open, but how do we know that?
SEVERAL
When Frank Ackerman left, did you go with him to Altadena?
MINOVITZ
No way.
SEIGEL
Arcadia? He said Altadena.
MINOVITZ
He went to Seamadrae, a little temple there. We were angry at him; he was trying to split the Temple.
SEVERAL
But you said that Harold had a total of three stores.
MINOVITZ
Liquor stores yes.
SEVERAL
You have identified one on Lake, where was the third?
MINOVITZ
It was on Orange Grove, on Raymond, corner Raymond and Orange Grove and he sold it, that was the first one to sell and he sold it to a black guy and it got written up because it was the first black person to have property, a business, in Pasadena, a nice kid. The first thing he went out to do, when he took over his store was buy himself a black Cadillac, parked it in front and you know you want to help these kids that are going to start out, you know he was government funded and we’re trying to help, what the hell do you need a black Cadillac for?
SEIGEL
What year was that? Do you remember was it in the 60s?
MINOVITZ
Well Dana was about 3 years old, she is 41, so she was born in ‘67 so.
SEIGEL
It would be 1970, so that was the first black owned business in Pasadena in 1970?
MINOVITZ
In that kind of a business anyway, in liquor, don’t get listen liquor license you had to be so far from a school, you had to be so far from a church and you know they had a lot of rules for liquor in those days; you got to be closed at Election Day.
SEIGEL
Did they pick their locations having to do with areas that they knew that they were more African-American people living in those areas?
MINOVITZ
No no I think they picked the store that was empty.
SEIGEL
That was emptied and they felt had a lot of traffic maybe on the street or something?
MINOVITZ
The one on Orange Grove was a liquor store they just bought somebody out who wanted to sell, and there was a liquor store across the street, he owned the building, Armenians family, that we actually became very friendly with but we fought like cats and dogs with them for a while because he was our landlord.
SEIGEL
And then they owned a competing store?
MINOVITZ
Yeah across the street but then they needed something or we needed something then you know if you bought by bulk, you got a discount, he came in on the deal with the other stores to buy in bulk and ______ Langhorne had a store, they were up in Altadena though but they ran it themselves
SEIGEL
And had a liquor store?
MINOVITZ
Yeah the two of them ran it.
SEIGEL
Oh I didn’t know that.
MINOVITZ
I don’t think they had much help.
SEIGEL
It sounded like a one with _______ in the 60s, let’s say, a pretty good percentage of the men had small businesses of some sort or did sales or something.
MINOVITZ
Dress shops and alcohol…..
SEIGEL
Is that accurate you think? My impression that most of the men, you know there weren’t so many men who lets say were doctors and lawyers?
MINOVITZ
No they were a lot of you know, we did have our doctors, we had Dr. Furman.
SEIGEL
He was like Caltech professors.
MINOVITZ
A lot of Caltech, we always had a lot of Caltech so. Not Caltech, we had JPL. Caltech had their own little temple, they came one year, they had their own little group inside their school.
SEIGEL
They had their own little place they worshipped?
MINOVITZ
I don’t know how they did it because one year they came and a couple of young kids, professors and they had tennis shoes on. Here we were dressed to kill we hand our high holidays on, we all went out and got new outfits in those days and our jewelry were jingling on and you know and they were in tennis shoes and I comment on it and he said when you go to temple you are supposed to be comfortable because you’re going to stay all day _______ and he talked me out of the whole thing. I said well how come we haven’t seen you before? He said we do our own, we don’t need, that’s for some reason they needed that year they came for some reason so Caltech did their own.
SEIGEL
That explains why there weren’t that many Caltech members probably because they had their own some sort of own their own worship, like their own chapel that they used.
MINOVITZ
Whether they didn’t or did it at home or whatever, but that was the first year they came and we might have some now but JPL we had a lot. JPL well that was a different story, Herb Phillips worked there, a lot of people worked there. Mickey Alpert worked there. Yeah a lot of people.
SEVERAL
Yeah right. When you were married, did the liquor store on Farrows, was that still a center for the Jewish community, I mean did you still have?
MINOVITZ
Yeah people would stop in, that’s where you got your gossip.
SEVERAL
It still was, even though it was no longer.
MINOVITZ
Once my father in law was really out of it, then that group it was the older group.
SEIGEL
It was his group.
MINOVITZ
His group that centered in, the guys come in that worked around their dress shops in Colorado, come up and buy a bread for the weekend and stuff like that and talked to my father in law, he knew when to be there.
SEIGEL
So it was like men gossip.
MINOVITZ
It was men more than the women.
SEVERAL
Interesting. So after World War II, do you know when your father in law about what year your father in law stopped coming in? Was it..
SEIGEL
How old he was, maybe could figure it out.
SEVERAL
Was it like mid 1950s or was it you know, was Eisenhower still president?
MINOVITZ
No it was even after my mother in law died, he had nothing else to do.
SEIGEL
Something must have made him stop coming in though.
MINOVITZ
Couldn’t drive anymore probably.
SEVERAL
So after World War II, there was still a lot of Jewish owned business on Farrows then.
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEVERAL
Furniture stores?
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah the Brown furniture store, and there was another one, across the street, I think it was Star something, they were Jewish.
SEVERAL
Were they also members of the temple?
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah. The Glendale was a tight Jewish group, I mean here was your only social life in those early years was the temple. You didn’t have any other outside life.
SEVERAL
Now you said Glendale, actually I was thinking of Pasadena.
MINOVITZ
Did I say Glendale? I meant Pasadena. Glendale…. Yah my folks were active in _______ when I was growing up. My mother was active in Temple. My father of course wasn’t but..
SEVERAL
Yeah actually that raised a question, I was wondering how you got involved to the BBGs when your dad was so?
MINOVITZ
He was the member of ______,
SEVERAL
Oh he was.
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah you weren’t allowed to date, my sister and I couldn’t date a guy that wasn’t Jewish.
SEIGEL
He just didn’t go to services regularly it sounds like.
MINOVITZ
He didn’t go to services period.
SEIGEL
Okay so I am trying to get that out there. He didn’t go on high holidays but he belonged?
MINOVITZ
No but my mother and his parents were living so my mother who didn’t drive would take us on the street car and the bus and then took us about an hour and we’d go but he would show up dinner and take us home but he would have no part of it and the ________ the women on top and the men on below, so we sneaked down, give my grandpa a kiss and let him know we were there and he would be very embarrassed, your now allowed here and then we would go back upstairs. She didn’t carry a purse. You don’t carry anything into _____ but she had a paper bag but that would was okay, I don’t know what she had in the bag.
SEIGEL
I always wondered about that, why are you not supposed to carry, because you are not suppose to have money, so you do not look like you have money on you?
MINOVITZ
Who knows what she was doing.
SEIGEL
They have these little traditions.
MINOVITZ
My dad has five sisters and my mother, and they all cooked the dinner and us kids played, we went to temple for few minutes, we’d visit grandma and she had us sit and she told us what we were doing, what prayer we were saying and why and explain it to us.
SEIGEL
Why do you think, it sounds like your father sort of pulled away from Judaism in a way, was he brought up very religious? Was he brought up orthodox?
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEIGEL
So he sounds like he decided at some point that he didn’t want to have anything to do with that.
MINOVITZ
That was all. As I said he wouldn’t let me have a Brisque
SEIGEL
Right I was always curious about this.
MINOVITZ
Yeah he was against a lot of things in the Jewish religion but we weren’t allowed to marry or date a guy that wasn’t Jewish and yet he was living when Laurie got married, she was the first one to marry someone that wasn’t Jewish, she married Bill, long blond hair, I lost her two years ago.
SEIGEL
Hmm, Sorry.
MINOVITZ
But anyway they accepted him and that’s interesting because they wouldn’t accept choice in doing that and but Laurie did all the holidays.
SEIGEL
She sounds like she was the one she kept active and belonged to the temple?
MINOVITZ
They know their Jewish now, the boys but anyway.
SEVERAL
Did Harold or you participate in any Jewish organizations that were not affiliated with the temple?
MINOVITZ
AZA yeah he really ran these.
SEVERAL
Oh he did.
MINOVITZ
Oh he was good football player, little guy, but played football every Saturday.
SEIGEL
He must be a good athlete.
MINOVITZ
Back into his tape, he was talking about Les Furman, how he wanted to be the president of the AZA and he wasn’t one of the guys and I thought that was so interesting how he tried to say you know he was, so he had to go to the football games whether he played or not.
SEIGEL
Oh to be one of the guys.
MINOVITZ
He wanted to be president, Les.
SEVERAL
But as an adult were you involved in any Jewish organization, lets say Hadasa or..
MINOVITZ
I did when I got married yeah. In fact I am a life member to Hadasa and to Brandis.
SEIGEL
We don’t have Hadasa active at the temple.
MINOVITZ
But there is something going on, Hadasa is having a big luncheon in February.
SEIGEL
Because since we have been members and it’s probably like 15 years now. I have never heard mention of Hadasa.
MINOVITZ
In fact I think ____ and Hadasa sort of do things together.
SEIGEL
And I heard the people raised money for City of Hope through certain groups.
MINOVITZ
Yeah I belong to Partners of Hope.
SEIGEL
Was that kind of a Jewish organization?
MINOVITZ
It is all Jewish I think.
SEIGEL
Okay and what does it mean, Partners of Hope, what was it like?
MINOVITZ
I joined after I lost Laurie because she was in the City of Hope a lot and I want to give back, but it was mostly from Temple City temple.
SEIGEL
It is a Jewish organization.
MINOVITZ
But it’s all Jews and City of Hope you know originally was for Jewish doctors who couldn’t get a job.
SEIGEL
Yeah that’s what I guess I am trying to understand now that.
MINOVITZ
So now it is mostly Asian but.
SEIGEL
It was set up as an institution where they could practice?
MINOVITZ
Yeah there were four doctors that couldn’t get a job and the finally opened up a tent in Dority and they took in, you know at the time, just you know tuberculosis, TB patients and then now it’s cancer. And some heart there, you know we have heart specialist.
SEVERAL
What is this organization that’s primarily based in temple city?
MINOVITZ
Well they meet, their meetings are at Temple City for some reason and most of the members are from Temple City.
SEVERAL
And what do they do, they fundraise?
MINOVITZ
It’s a fundraising for City of Hope. Yeah definitely fundraising.
SEVERAL
Are there any other members of the Pasadena Jewish Temple?
MINOVITZ
Well Phil Weis belongs, Maurie Nagan they joined, whether he wanted to or not. Let me see who else, Julie Feldsing is a member but they are not members of the temple anymore but their kids, so furious, they went to Temples City because their dues are so much less.
SEIGEL
Yeah I understand that.
MINOVITZ
You know I cant’ quick the temple that’s another thing, Harold got angry about. He was so funny and these little old ladies, you know their husband would die, and they would quit the temple, they couldn’t afford it and he said they can well afford it, there is no excuse for that and he would go to them personally and tell them I know how much you have, well how did he know and you can afford and I will get you a special dues but you are not quitting the temple.
SEIGEL
I think they should have reduced dues if you are on your own.
MINOVITZ
Well any way, I am kind of angry at temple right now, then the boys said are you going to quit? I said I can’t quit, your father wouldn’t have it.
SEIGEL
You know that is one of his things.
MINOVITZ
I cant quit the temple. It is really funny and I really appreciate they didn’t give my seats away because they usually do. I got two seats there, actually Harold bought them for his father and when he died a few months later, in the soft seats, he took over. So I am angry at them because I have offered them quite a bit of money, at least I think it is a lot of money today. If they move around the plaques, Harold and Laurie are way down here and I want them up there and we’ve been members of the temple now say we would’ve been married 60 years last week and I said to Bruce, move us and I’ll pay you, make it worth your while. He said can’t they are reserved, I don’t even know those people and I said we were members for Harold, grew up in this temple.
SEIGEL
It was like wall members.
MINOVITZ
Yeah I go in there, I like them every time I go in there I like the two of them. There are people that nobody even knows who they are anymore you know they have been gone for so long and families moved away so why they have to have up there, I don’t want them down the bottom and he was so active.
SEIGEL
What other questions do you have?
SEVERAL
Well lets see just a couple, where were the orthodox services held, I mean if regular service was held?
MINOVITZ
Prior, an hour earlier.
SEVERAL
Okay.
MINOVITZ
If they had it.
SEVERAL
Okay so it was held in the same.
MINOVITZ
Well you had the little sanctuary so probably had it an hour earlier.
SEVERAL
Now there has been some services for high holidays services that were held in I don’t know, in the civic auditorium.
MINOVITZ
We did that one year, I remember that.
SEVERAL
They did?
MINOVITZ
Yeah.
SEVERAL
Did you remember what year it was?
MINOVITZ
No but I remember feeling very cold there.
SEIGEL
Did they do it because the temple was under construction at that time?
MINOVITZ
I don’t know, but no we used the church when we were under construction and they put a sheet over Jesus on the second day it came down to about here and the rabbi turned to us and said, welcome to our service, you belong here just as well as we do, but it was really kind of cute, we always had to go two days until the kids went to college.
SEIGEL
So the kids missed the school.
MINOVITZ
But I mean when they were in college, Mark was at UCLA, he had to be home for the holiday I mean there was, the second day he said I cant, I got, it’s too hard and then I said I am getting tired of this.
SEIGEL
Did they have it in the civic center because it was too small and the small?
MINOVITZ
It was awful there, we were just lost.
SEIGEL
It was too big in the civic center probably but they didn’t have space for it is that why they moved it?
MINOVITZ
I don’t know, we might have been building or remodeling or something at that time.
SEVERAL
For your daughter’s Jewish education, they went to Sunday school?
MINOVITZ
And they went to confirmation all three of them.
SEVERAL
Did they go to Hebrew school?
MINOVITZ
No.
SEVERAL
They did not?
MINOVITZ
You mean the temple.
SEIGEL
Like Tuesday, Thursday.
SEVERAL
The Tuesday, Thursday school.
MINOVITZ
Oh yeah Hebrew school because they were bar mitzvah.
SEIGEL
Right and I remember you talking about the car pooling, they carpooled.
MINOVITZ
Yeah they went to Hebrew school and were bar mitzvah and so were the boys but they went on to conformation but we didn’t go to the private school at the temple, the only one that could have would have been Dana probably the others they didn’t have a temple then, they didn’t even have a nursery school then.
SEVERAL
So they went to the religious school but when they had their bar mitzvah at the temple, they did not have a Saturday?
MINOVITZ
The girls didn’t, the boys did of course. But the little one did. Little ones and the middle. Yeah there are 17 years different from Mark and Dana. She was our surprise.
SEVERAL
I think that is, I do have one other question. Do you recall about when Dina Louise was the executive director?
MINOVITZ
What about Dina?
SEIGEL
Like what year?
MINOVITZ
Oh I don’t know.
SEIGEL
We are talking this.
MINOVITZ
She was great though, organizing things.
SEIGEL
Okay do you remember about how old you were, he will do the math.
MINOVITZ
I was expecting Dana so.
SEIGEL
Anywhere in your early 40s right?
MINOVITZ
I was 38.
SEIGEL
Okay. Now you have to do the math.
MINOVITZ
I’d just turned 39, she came on 18th, my birthday is 10th, I just turned 39 when I had her so.
SEIGEL
That’s good. Sometimes I can’t remember a year but I can remember these eras.
SEVERAL
It was 60s or so. So and that was about the time Harold sold the liquor store s?
MINOVITZ
Couple of years later.
SEIGEL
So she was probably director before the liquor stores were sold?
MINOVITZ
Yeah Dana was about 3 years old.
SEIGEL
Because that was the early 70’s they were sold.
SEVERAL
Okay. I think that’s it.
SEIGEL
Thank you so much.
MINOVITZ
I am so glad you caught me, I was just leaving.


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