A TEI Project

Interview of Leroy Big Soldier

Table of contents

1. Transcript

1.1. SESSION ONE
JUNE 20, 2011

BAYHYLLE
This is Ruth Bayhylle. The date today is June 20 [2011]. I am in the offices of the United American Indian Involvement on Sixth Street in Los Angeles [California], speaking with LeRoy Big Soldier. LeRoy, when and where were you born?
BIG SOLDIER
In [unclear] ,Germany, March 22, 1954. My dad was stationed out there. He was in the service, U.S. Army, army hospital, I guess.
BAYHYLLE
So your dad was in the service. Did your mother work there as well?
BIG SOLDIER
My mom was at home, I mean in Wisconsin, in Black River Falls, so he [unclear] her. He asked the army, I guess, “Can I [unclear] my wife?” “Yeah, go ahead.” So she went to Germany. She was already pregnant by then. I guess it would happen any day now. She couldn’t hold me in, so I was born [unclear].
BAYHYLLE
What tribe are you?
BIG SOLDIER
Ho-Chunk.
BAYHYLLE
Are you full?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Where’s your reserve? Where’s your home?
BIG SOLDIER
Black River Falls.
BAYHYLLE
Black River Falls?
BIG SOLDIER
Wisconsin, reservation.
BAYHYLLE
That’s a reservation then, Black River Falls Reservation.
BIG SOLDIER
They call it BRF.
BAYHYLLE
How many brothers and sisters did you have?
BIG SOLDIER
Four brothers, four sisters.
BAYHYLLE
Were you the oldest or middle or—
BIG SOLDIER
Oldest.
BAYHYLLE
Did you ever actually live at Black River Falls?
BIG SOLDIER
As a baby.
BAYHYLLE
Did you go to school there at all?
BIG SOLDIER
Never. Been out at California all of my life.
BAYHYLLE
When did you come to California then?
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t know.
BAYHYLLE
You remember the year or how old you were?
BIG SOLDIER
In the sixties.
BAYHYLLE
In the sixties?
BIG SOLDIER
I think so.
BAYHYLLE
How did you get out to California then? Tell me about that.
BIG SOLDIER
Well, I guess I flew out here, I guess.
BAYHYLLE
What did you come out here for? With your parents?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, my mom and dad wanted to move, relocate, go somewhere else or something. I guess there was no jobs over there, I guess.
BAYHYLLE
You were born in Germany. Then when did your family move back to the United States?
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t know. May. I don’t have it on me, but it was May something.
BAYHYLLE
How old were you, or how many years?
BIG SOLDIER
I was a couple months.
BAYHYLLE
So you were in Germany and then you moved back to the United States when you were just a baby?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, a couple months, I guess.
BAYHYLLE
Where did you live when you came back to the United States?
BIG SOLDIER
I lived out there, I guess, Black River.
BAYHYLLE
So you did live there?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, we was going to fly back there, but there was no airplane available, so we just came on a boat from Germany. That’s a long ride there.
BAYHYLLE
Yes, that’s a long way. Your father and your mother and you, right?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Was your father from Black River Falls?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
And your mother too?
BIG SOLDIER
I think from Madison.
BAYHYLLE
Is she Ho-Chunk, too, you said?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, full-blooded.
BAYHYLLE
So you were born in Germany and after a few months you moved back to the United States with your mother and father. You moved back to Black River Falls?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, for a while.
BAYHYLLE
Then where did you go?
BIG SOLDIER
That’s when we came out here to Los Angeles.
BAYHYLLE
So you were just a baby then when your family came out.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Did you ever speak to your parents, or your father and your mother, about relocation and how that worked for them?
BIG SOLDIER
Not talked a lot. I think they just got tired of Wisconsin, I guess.
BAYHYLLE
What was the problem back there?
BIG SOLDIER
No jobs, I guess.
BAYHYLLE
That’s a big problem, yeah.
BIG SOLDIER
Or the snow and all that, I guess.
BAYHYLLE
What kind of work did your father do?
BIG SOLDIER
Custodian. Yeah, custodian, janitor, work away from—
BAYHYLLE
He had been in the army, though, right? Did he have any training or a trade that he could [unclear]?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, they put him behind a desk, but I guess he didn’t like that. He did that, like, sixteen years. He regrets that now. Only it made us a living because he wanted out. They put him behind a desk pushing a pencil. He didn’t want to do that. All those battlefields he went to, of course, everybody wanted to hear the war stories, and he could tell a story. I mean, he wouldn’t talk to us, but when he’s drinking, then he’ll talk. He said he went through hell. He said, “I just got [unclear].” It was rough on them. A lot men that went in there, a lot of them, they didn’t come back.
BAYHYLLE
So he didn’t really have a trade then, really, did he, other than maybe clerical work, filing and typing?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, in the army. Well, recruiting. I guess that’s what he was doing, but he got tired of that.
BAYHYLLE
So you decided to come out to California. So did you and your family actually come out on the relocation program through BIA [Bureau of Indian Affairs]?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
How old were you then when you came out to L.A.?
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t remember. I must have been a baby when we came out here to Los Angeles. That’s the only place we’ve been living, L.A., all the time, California.
BAYHYLLE
Tell me what you remember. Where did you live when you came to Los Angeles most of the time? I mean you probably moved around a lot, but where did you live? What parts of town did you live in?
BIG SOLDIER
What parts of town? Used to live out on 25 and Hoover. I remember that pretty good. 1963, ’62, that’s when the [Watts] Riots broke out, 25th and Hoover. Of course, they tore it down, but I remember that, 25th and Hoover.
BAYHYLLE
Did you go to school there then, too, public school?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, yeah, [unclear] Elementary.
BAYHYLLE
Did you live in an apartment house or a house?
BIG SOLDIER
An apartment, two-story.
BAYHYLLE
Were there any other Indian families in the apartment?
BIG SOLDIER
I think we were the only one.
BAYHYLLE
When you were growing up then, did you meet any other people that came out on relocation? Do you remember?
BIG SOLDIER
No, I don’t remember, not really. My mom and dad’s Indian friends come over.
BAYHYLLE
Her Indian friends?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, come over and visit. They were Indians too.
BAYHYLLE
Did your mother work?
BIG SOLDIER
She was, like, a house mom or house mom.
BAYHYLLE
Where did she work?
BIG SOLDIER
At home, just watch the kids when my dad goes to work.
BAYHYLLE
So she stayed home and took care of the house and the children.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
So you went to school. You lived on 25th and Hoover. That’s the first place you remember, is that right?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
And then you went to one of the elementary schools there, is that right? Did you ever go away to boarding school anywhere?
BIG SOLDIER
No.
BAYHYLLE
You went to public school in Los Angeles.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, always.
BAYHYLLE
Where did you go to high school then?
BIG SOLDIER
Belmont High School, 1971. I was seventeen years old then. I remember that, but I started drinking and party, whatever. Had to drop out. My dad took me over there. “Bring your dad or somebody with you.” I got way behind. There was no way I could catch up, so I had to do continuation, but I didn’t do that either. That was a big thing in those days.
BAYHYLLE
High school and graduation? High school diploma?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. I regret that when I look back at it. I was young. I didn’t know nothing, seventeen years old. That was 1971.
BAYHYLLE
Well, you can always go back in the continuation school.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, I mean, I already got my high school diploma. That was 1990 I got it.
BAYHYLLE
Good. How did that work? Where did you go to get it?
BIG SOLDIER
Here.
BAYHYLLE
You attended Central High?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, Central High School. 1990, got my GED and I went, “Oh, it’s even harder.” All it is is one book. All that time I didn’t know that. I kept going back and kept failing.
BAYHYLLE
Kept what?
BIG SOLDIER
I was failing. I didn’t make it. I was a couple points behind, so I had to go back again. Three, the charm. I made it.
BAYHYLLE
Third time you did it.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, got the GED.
BAYHYLLE
Good for you, LeRoy. That’s good.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. so I might as well get my high school diploma too.
BAYHYLLE
Yeah.
BIG SOLDIER
They told me [unclear] one course.
BAYHYLLE
One course to get your diploma?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. He says, “You got enough credits.” He said, “Want to do that?” “Yeah, I might as well. That’s better than—.” Because they want to see your high school diploma, your GED. A high school diploma, I still got it.
BAYHYLLE
So then where have you worked when you were living here in Los Angeles? What kind of work did you do?
BIG SOLDIER
Shipping and receiving, security, security guard, I guess. Worked out there in Redondo Beach, 1985 to ’88. I got laid off over there. They were laying off the—so I was there five more years, the longest. They would have kept me, but they let everybody go. Under five years, they let everybody go. So I was there, like, three years. “Two more years, we would have kept you. But sorry, we’ve got to let you go.”
BAYHYLLE
Gee.
BIG SOLDIER
I collect unemployment for a while.
BAYHYLLE
You collected unemployment?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, for a while.
BAYHYLLE
At least you were able to do that for a little bit. And then where did you go to work?
BIG SOLDIER
I worked here and there, also doing security. When I was out here in L.A., I don’t how many places I worked. Well, some places I didn’t like or—security.
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, it didn’t work.
BIG SOLDIER
It didn’t work out, so I quit there and go somewhere else, just moved around.
BAYHYLLE
Did you get married and have a family? Do you have children?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, I had girlfriends and all that. Not that I know of. I don’t think I got any kids, I don’t think.
BAYHYLLE
You don’t have any children, but you did have friends and a girlfriend.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, a girlfriend, yeah, back then.
BAYHYLLE
Did you ever go to any of the powwows or any of the dances that they had around here in town?
BIG SOLDIER
Oh, yeah, all the time. Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Did you meet a lot of Indians there? Any Indians that had come out on relocation that you know of?
BIG SOLDIER
I never asked them.
BAYHYLLE
Never came up, huh?
BIG SOLDIER
No.
BAYHYLLE
I wanted to ask about your family, your mother and your father. What kinds of things did they do for social activities or for fun? Did they go to church or did they go to the Indian dances?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, used to go to church.
BAYHYLLE
What church did they go to, do you remember?
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t remember. It used to be here, downtown, I guess. Yeah, it’s still there. That was back in 1960s.
BAYHYLLE
What church? On what street maybe?
BIG SOLDIER
Christian church, 6th and [unclear].
BAYHYLLE
What’s the name of it?
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t know, some Christian church.
BAYHYLLE
The church on 6th Street.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, 6th and—what was that street? I walk by there all the time. That’s on this side of town, like 6th and Town, right on the corner. But I remember that. [unclear], quit coming about a week ago there. I remember he used to pick us up, take us home. He was good to us, that reverend. I forget the name, but that was 1963, ’64, something like that.
BAYHYLLE
It was on 6th Street?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, 6th and Town, downtown? Something like that. I forget the other street.
BAYHYLLE
How long did you go to that church, do you think, you and your family?
BIG SOLDIER
Oh, like, a year.
BAYHYLLE
How many?
BIG SOLDIER
A year. It wasn’t that long.
BAYHYLLE
Did you live in the area? Was it close by?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, that’s when we used to live on 25th and Hoover. He used to come and pick us up in the van, give us food, whatever. They were real good to us.
BAYHYLLE
Were a lot of Indians going to that church?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, there were some Indians there. Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
That’s good.
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t know what happened. I guess Mom and Dad—I don’t know if they got bored with that or something, because they didn’t want us to go no more. We quit going. Oh, no, that’s when we had to move, yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, you had to move out of the area.
BIG SOLDIER
We had to move to Glendale. Not Glendale. What’s that by Belmont High School? I guess that’s L.A. or—
BAYHYLLE
Echo Park? Elysian Park?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, around that area. So we had to move, so we quit going.
BAYHYLLE
It was far away then at that point, right?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Where did you go to school when you moved to Echo Park or that area?
BIG SOLDIER
I was going to Virgil High School on Vermont.
BAYHYLLE
What was that like?
BIG SOLDIER
Oh, it was all right. I didn’t care for that either. I was drinking then.
BAYHYLLE
You were drinking already by then?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
So you were how old? Fifteen? Thirteen?
BIG SOLDIER
Something like that, yeah.
BAYHYLLE
When did you start drinking, do you think? How old were you?
BIG SOLDIER
Oh, when I was a teenager, twelve, thirteen years old. I was in a foster home. That was 1967, ’68.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, my gosh.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, we tried to keep two brothers together in a foster home and everything. I stayed out there, I don’t know, like, two years.
BAYHYLLE
You and your brother?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, my brother. Picked us up. My older sister used to pick us up. Of course, we’d be drinking, “Want a beer?” “Yeah.” [unclear], but I denied it. I said, “I’m not no drunk. I can’t be. I’m too young,” or whatever.
BAYHYLLE
So you had a pretty hard life.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, but I’ve been sober a long time now, like twenty years, twenty-five years.
BAYHYLLE
That’s good. Congratulations. That’s good.
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t smoke no weed. I don’t smoke any cigarettes. I quit smoking too. I haven’t done that yet.
BAYHYLLE
What kind of work are you doing now, LeRoy?
BIG SOLDIER
I ain’t doing nothing. I look here and there, look for work, but I don’t know. I went to Children’s Hospital recently, like a month ago or something. My sister-in-law, she works there. She’s married to my brother. Lots of family in that. She told me that, “You should go back over there, fill another one out.”
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, you should. Just keep going back.
BIG SOLDIER
They opened up that new building a month ago, next month, so I might try that out.
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, if they need more staff.
BIG SOLDIER
Got no record, so you got clean record. That’s the first thing they check on you, do a background on you. Not no killer or somebody.
BAYHYLLE
You should. I would if I were you. Just keep going back.
BIG SOLDIER
[unclear] going out there this week [unclear] some money [unclear].
BAYHYLLE
Have you ever talked to anyone else that came out of relocation? Do you have any friends who came out on relocation, their families?
BIG SOLDIER
Indians?
BAYHYLLE
Uh-huh.
BIG SOLDIER
I probably have, but I don’t remember.
BAYHYLLE
I mentioned that I’ve spoken to quite a few people that came out, and some people had a pretty good time, pretty good experience, and other people really struggled. Sounds like your family struggled a little bit when they came out here. Why was that, do you think?
BIG SOLDIER
Well, I don’t know. Maybe the environment or economy, I guess. Like I say, he talked about going back to the service again, but he never did that, though. I mean he could have gone back in. He could have, but I guess he didn’t want to.
BAYHYLLE
What kind of work did he do here in Los Angeles then?
BIG SOLDIER
Custodian, making pretty good money doing that, working over here at the—still over there, Triple-A, Adams and [unclear].
BAYHYLLE
Right. The [unclear] Building.
BIG SOLDIER
That’s still there. I remember that. Used to go over there, pick up his check with my mom and dad. My mom and my sister, we’d go pick his check up, cash it and pay the rent, get groceries or whatever. Yeah, I remember that, ’63. Oh, that’s when the riots broke out, the race riots. I was looking out the window, looking out there, and it was deserted. I’d never seen it like that.
BAYHYLLE
It was what?
BIG SOLDIER
Deserted. Couldn’t see nobody.
BAYHYLLE
Where were you living?
BIG SOLDIER
Twenty-fifth and Hoover, second floor, looking out the window. National Guard, I guess, had machine guns, .50-caliber, the kind of gun they had back in the—
BAYHYLLE
Wow.
BIG SOLDIER
Nobody on the street.
BAYHYLLE
Wow. What happened then? How did you spend the day? Did you stay inside?
BIG SOLDIER
Stay inside, eat, watch TV, whatever. Couldn’t go outside. Mom and Dad said, “You guys can’t go outside because of that riot.”
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, because that would have been just down south from where you were.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, it was on Vermont.
BAYHYLLE
Vermont and Adams, south of Adams and—
BIG SOLDIER
Rioting right there, yeah, right in there. You heard gunfire going off. Lots of cops, mostly National Guard, I guess. But I remember that.
BAYHYLLE
Wow. How old were you?
BIG SOLDIER
Nine?
BAYHYLLE
Gee.
BIG SOLDIER
Born in 1954. Yeah, I was about nine, I guess, eight or nine.
BAYHYLLE
What did your parents think about the riots? Did they say?
BIG SOLDIER
[unclear].
BAYHYLLE
They didn’t think it was anything? But it scared them enough to make you stay inside, didn’t it?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, we had to. Couldn’t go nowhere. That was boring.
BAYHYLLE
You have an older sister, you said, that took care of a lot of things.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, she passed away, though. When was that? 2010 or ’09.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, so just recently. You were the oldest boy, is that right?
BIG SOLDIER
Yes.
BAYHYLLE
But she was the oldest of the children then, right?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. My other sister’s still living, the other one.
BAYHYLLE
Where does she live?
BIG SOLDIER
Hawthorne [unclear] Wisconsin. The other one lives in Bakersfield. She used to live in Wisconsin, too, but [unclear]. I guess it wasn’t working out in Wisconsin, so she went to Arizona with my niece, and I guess things didn’t work out. They got bored over there, so she moved out here.
BAYHYLLE
She lives in Bakersfield now?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
What’s her name?
BIG SOLDIER
Edith.
BAYHYLLE
So all of the children, you and all the rest of them, your older sisters, all your sisters were born out here in Los Angeles then, is that right?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, pretty sure. Oh, except for my older sister. She was born out there.
BAYHYLLE
She was born in Wisconsin.
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t remember, Black River, maybe Black River, I guess, but I know she was born out there. That’s when we came out here, I think, when she was born. I forgot what year that was.
BAYHYLLE
I’m trying to get this straight. When you came out here, there was your father and mother, your older sister—
BIG SOLDIER
And me, yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Just the four of you, or was there another one?
BIG SOLDIER
No, that was it, and the rest of my brothers and sisters all born out here in L.A., yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Did your parents ever talk about the trip out on relocation? How did they get out here, do you know?
BIG SOLDIER
Oh, I don’t know. I guess we flew out here, I guess.
BAYHYLLE
What?
BIG SOLDIER
I think we flew out here.
BAYHYLLE
You flew out?
BIG SOLDIER
I think so.
BAYHYLLE
Was your father still in the service then when he came out?
BIG SOLDIER
No, he was out.
BAYHYLLE
That’s what you said. He never went back in.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, he was talking about going back in because I guess they wanted to take him back, but he didn’t want to go. I don’t know. I don’t guess he felt comfortable behind a desk pushing a pencil.
BAYHYLLE
Just a few more, LeRoy, a few more questions. Tell me about living in Los Angeles, what that’s been like for you. First of all, have you ever lived anywhere else?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, I lived out in Utah. My brother used to live out there. St. George, I guess, Pima Reservation. Oh, man, that was party-hardy out there back in the seventies.
BAYHYLLE
That’s in Arizona?
BIG SOLDIER
No, Utah.
BAYHYLLE
That was the Pima—
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t mean Utah.
BAYHYLLE
Arizona?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, Utah, yeah, St. George, on the outskirts of the Indian reservation, Pima Reservation.
BAYHYLLE
Really, in Utah?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Pima Reservation?
BIG SOLDIER
Not Pima. I mean the Paiute. I get it mixed up. Yeah, it’s Paiute. [unclear] to go out there.
BAYHYLLE
And stay?
BIG SOLDIER
You would just drink, get into fights, whatever, go to jail, back in the day. That didn’t work out. I lived there for a while, two, three months. Got tired of it and came back to L.A., and my brother followed. He had a couple of kids then. In 1975, I remember [unclear] used to work at the [unclear]. [unclear] my mom and dad.
BAYHYLLE
What guy?
BIG SOLDIER
Some Indian guy. Fuddemaker. He’s the same tribe we are.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, yeah, John, John Fuddemaker, uh-huh.
BIG SOLDIER
LeRoy Chase, he worked over there, too. He said, “Hey, I used to help your mom and dad with the bills and that.” He said, “I used to work with your brother.” I thought he was kidding, and my brother was already working there, my brother John. I said, “Really?” He said, “Yeah. Hey, come in Monday, man, and I’ll put you to work, help your mom and dad with the bills. Come on in Monday.”
BAYHYLLE
So what happened?
BIG SOLDIER
They hired me. I got hired.
BAYHYLLE
What did you do there?
BIG SOLDIER
Janitor, moving, sweeping, mopping. It was easy enough. Had to move stuff. I lived on Fifth and Hill. Oh, man, we had to go up those steps. There was no elevator. We had to take everything up those steps.
BAYHYLLE
Fifth and Hill, right.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, right by the Pussycat Theater. I remember that.
BAYHYLLE
Above the Pussycat Theater.
BIG SOLDIER
Next to it. I thought they closed that down, but I don’t think it was [unclear]. I don’t think it was [unclear]. But I remember that. Oh, man, those steps were wood. [unclear]. We had [unclear] tabletops and everything.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, gosh. Where were you taking it?
BIG SOLDIER
Over there, Washington. They were relocating. I remember that. I was sober, though. Made us the hamburgers, whatever. I made good money. That’s [unclear]. We had to move them over there, relocate, and that was something. I remember that, 1975.
BAYHYLLE
How long did you work for the Indian Center?
BIG SOLDIER
A month.
BAYHYLLE
That’s good. That was a good job for you.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, Friday, weekends. I was going to school there, too, but I dropped out, trying to get my high school diploma.
BAYHYLLE
Here at UAII?
BIG SOLDIER
No, over there at the Indian Center. It had to be ’75 because we went there nine months, but I dropped out of that too, started drinking, and so I left my class with that. I learned a lady got murdered [unclear].
BAYHYLLE
A lady got murdered? Where?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, lesbians. [unclear] any girls [unclear].
BAYHYLLE
When was that? Who was that, do you remember?
BIG SOLDIER
That was in ’75. Yeah, she chopped her head off.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, that’s right. I remember that.
BIG SOLDIER
I remember that.
BAYHYLLE
Here arms too.
BIG SOLDIER
I think so. Yeah, she got jealous, messing around behind her back, and she didn’t like it. She was a tutor there, a teacher there.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, my gosh. At the Indian Center?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, she killed her, murdered her.
BAYHYLLE
I didn’t remember that.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, I remember that. Oh, man, I couldn’t believe that. Her? Chopped her up, killed her. Worked as a teacher. [unclear] for murder.
BAYHYLLE
Gosh.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, [unclear] believed it.
BAYHYLLE
That was a wild time back then, wasn’t it, seventies, sixties and seventies?
BIG SOLDIER
[unclear] pretty girl. [unclear] Seventh and Hoover.
BAYHYLLE
Was that where the bar was, Seventh and Hoover?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Because they were right next to each other, weren’t they?
BIG SOLDIER
[unclear] drink there too, got into fights. My brother was a bouncer there, my brother John. He met these other people there. Then we’d get tired there. Closing time, go downtown to Shrimpo, down to Shrimpo. [unclear] used to be cops there, but [unclear] fighting, raising hell, throwing bottles, having powwows, pick up women, whatever, make a run, pass out in a van.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, my gosh.
BIG SOLDIER
[unclear] how we got home. I don’t remember. Drove home. [unclear] driven home by somebody. I don’t even remember leaving there. Sometimes I’ll be in a van and wake up next morning. Everybody’s gone, of course. I don’t remember what happened. That was back in the day, though. Well, I guess [unclear]. My brother went to a program. I don’t remember. It was the late seventies, I guess. [unclear] over here on Pico in Westlake. So I go there. My brother was in there. They’re telling me I was alcoholic. I didn’t want to hear it. They said, “Oh, doing this program helps,” just like he was, but he started going to prison then in [unclear]. He ended up twice. Used to go visit him. [unclear]. “Oh, that’s what I hear.” [unclear] guy pushed my dad, and my dad’s kind of old. Pushed him or something, and I guess [unclear]. My brother jumped him, and this other Indian guy jumped him too. So my dad kicked him and [unclear] from there. I wasn’t there. [unclear] attempted murder.
BAYHYLLE
Whoa.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, so my brother beat the shit out of him. He almost died, [unclear] assault with deadly weapon, ADW. In the county jail here downtown. The county jail. I’d go visit him. He was there, like, nine months. My daddy was in there. I couldn’t come up with the bail money to get him out, so that was hard for me. [unclear]. He was in there for nine months, god. They wouldn’t let him go because they said he was an accessory. So I guess my brother talked to the D.A., or what’s his name, whoever that was. I forgot. He said, “I want to take the blame for everything. My dad didn’t do it.” He says, “I’ll take the whole thing. I don’t care. I’ll go to prison, but I want my dad out of here.” So I guess they finally dropped the charges on my dad, let him go.
BAYHYLLE
After nine months, jeez.
BIG SOLDIER
I think it was nine months. A long time. We used to go visit him almost every weekend, give him cigarettes. That’s when they used to let you smoke, so we gave him a carton of cigarettes. [unclear] in there, here and there.
BAYHYLLE
You were working?
BIG SOLDIER
I was sober, though. My brother said, “I don’t care what happens to me. Send me into San Quentin, whatever. I want my dad out of here.” Damn, I could not come up with the money. They wanted that bail money. It was a lot of money in those days. It was, like, a thousand dollars—
BAYHYLLE
Oh, wow.
BIG SOLDIER
—because of the charge he was on, attempted murder.
BAYHYLLE
Assault with a deadly weapon.
BIG SOLDIER
[unclear] attempted murder.
BAYHYLLE
First, yeah.
BIG SOLDIER
[unclear] going to get them all. They let that other guy go or he got cleared, I guess. I was in Arizona when that happened, so I don’t know. He went to [unclear] then, and they went back again and decided he [unclear] saw the light or whatever, sobered up. I noticed a difference in him.
BAYHYLLE
You noticed a difference in him?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, the second time. I guess first time, I guess he didn’t see [unclear]. I mean that’s how it’s going to be, go to prison, back and forth, back and forth, wind up getting killed or whatever. I was heading that way too. I was glad I didn’t go to prison myself. I was getting crazy, too, and he stopped me a couple times. [unclear] rob some people, I guess. I don’t remember.
BAYHYLLE
Rob some people?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, grabbed a knife [unclear].
BAYHYLLE
You did?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, I cut somebody up [unclear]. Man, woman, I didn’t care. [unclear] money is all. Yeah, I would’ve killed them, so I testified against him. [unclear].
BAYHYLLE
Who was going to—
BIG SOLDIER
Well, I was going to slit their throat.
BAYHYLLE
You were going to set—
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, slit their throat.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, my gosh.
BIG SOLDIER
Man, woman.
BAYHYLLE
Whoever had the money.
BIG SOLDIER
[unclear] my brother. Yeah, well, he said, “Hey, grab me a knife.” [unclear] whatever. That was on Sixth and Union. We used to call it the pink house, the pink palace. It was all pink, this [unclear] little apartment. My sister used to live [unclear] back in the day. I don’t know what year that was.
BAYHYLLE
How long did you live like that? How many years was that?
BIG SOLDIER
Until I sobered up, 1982. I was [unclear] program to program.
BAYHYLLE
So at least from the 1970s to 1982, that kind of life?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, early eighties, I finally sobered up. I remember because I walked down here. Wilshire, [unclear]? I was going to jump off. I was waiting for a big Mack truck to hit, and I was sober too. I remember that.
BAYHYLLE
You were going to jump off the bridge?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, commit suicide. I was by myself.
BAYHYLLE
What happened?
BIG SOLDIER
Then the trucks started coming on the other side. Had to walk to the other side. I was waiting for an eighteen-wheeler. I don’t want to bounce all over the freeway. I wanted to get squashed like a cockroach, I guess. My brother came over [unclear] DTs and I was, like, hearing voices—
BAYHYLLE
Oh, my god.
BIG SOLDIER
—hearing music. I kept hearing that “Get Down Tonight,” K.C. and the Sunshine Band. It was real clear. I could just hear it and I told my brother, I said, “Hey, can you hear that music? They’re playing good music.” “I don’t hear nothing.”
BAYHYLLE
Oh, dear.
BIG SOLDIER
I’d hear the voice of people talking. This was during the day. I thought it only happened at night. I was on the DTs. That’s when I sobered up. I remember that [unclear].
BAYHYLLE
Did you go to a program then? What program did you go to for—
BIG SOLDIER
Main Artery. No, I went to the Men’s Lodge too. I bounced all over the place, the Main Artery.
BAYHYLLE
Did they help you? Did those programs help you?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, but I guess I didn’t want to sober up. I just wanted to [unclear] dry up or be on the wagon for a while and get my health back, and then go back out there again, do it again. I remember that. Wayne Fanning, that was the name of it.
BAYHYLLE
What was it?
BIG SOLDIER
Wayne Fanning. It’s a detox in El Monte.
BAYHYLLE
But you just went from program to program, you said. Men’s Lodge, Main Artery.
BIG SOLDIER
And [unclear], used to be the Royal Palms—no, Mary Lind.
BAYHYLLE
Mary who?
BIG SOLDIER
Mary Lind Foundation. That’s an alcohol program. Royal Palms and [unclear]. Used to be right here downtown. Yeah, it was real fancy, got your own room, your own key. I remember that, because I didn’t want guys to see me cry, so I had to close the door and cry in the pillow, telling god [unclear] leave. I don’t know. “Lift this curse from me,” or whatever. All of a sudden, it just went away.
BAYHYLLE
Just like that?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, I didn’t want to drink no more. I didn’t see no bright light or nothing. I mean, the door was open a little. I had to close it when I started crying. I was sober in there. Man, I was shaking. Oh, man, but I got over that. Ever since then, I’ve been sober.
BAYHYLLE
Really? You’ve never—
BIG SOLDIER
Never drank nothing. I’ve been offered. A couple times I got tempted, but I would walk away or—well, I had to walk away. Shit, if I would stay longer, I know I would have took that drink. Am I ten years sober now? That was 1990. That’s when I was going to school here to get my GED.
BAYHYLLE
Diploma?
BIG SOLDIER
No, my GED in 1990. That’s when I stopped drinking. I was sober, like, eight years then.
BAYHYLLE
Wow, that’s wonderful.
BIG SOLDIER
[unclear]. [unclear] a lot of people die, just pass away due to drinking. My older sister had cirrhosis. I had to bury her at Rose Hills. I go visit her every now and then.
BAYHYLLE
That’s your sister, you said?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, my older. My other brother got killed in a car wreck. Oh, man, that was real hard for me. That was in 1988, in November, a couple days before Thanksgiving, he was killed. I guess it was his fault. I don’t know. The guy, I guess, that he was working with, construction or something, I guess he wasn’t buckled in there, safety belt, seat belt. I guess the guy was falling asleep driving. Don’t know where they were driving to. That was in Utah [unclear]. I guess the car started to flip and he fell off. I mean he fell asleep and he went in that ravine or whatever. It started flipping. He went outside the windshield. That was real hard for me.
BAYHYLLE
You’ve had a really rough life, LeRoy, in Los Angeles.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
You’ve been sober for twenty-some years at least.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, twenty, yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Twenty, almost thirty years.
BIG SOLDIER
Twenty-five.
BAYHYLLE
You said ’82.
BIG SOLDIER
1982. That was in May.
BAYHYLLE
This is 2011. Yeah, twenty-nine years.
BIG SOLDIER
My other brother, he’s been sober longer than me, Ralph. He lives in Wisconsin. He comes to visit here. We get along. He’s been sober for awhile, too, Frank. I remember he had a hell of a life, go to jail and everything. I didn’t want to go to jail, like, sixty days or something like that. Man, he was doing that. Oh, man. He saw me, “Hey, you related to Big Soldier?” I said, “Yeah, that’s my brother.” “Oh, man,” he said. “I don’t want to see you in here again.” Oh, that’s another thing that sobered me up because I didn’t want to go to jail, revolving door. I remember that. That judge [unclear], he didn’t like drunks either because his daughter got killed by a drunken driver.
BAYHYLLE
Nobody likes drunken drivers.
BIG SOLDIER
No, that judge. That’s another thing he didn’t like, drunks. “I see you in here again, Mr. Big Soldier, I’m going to give you ninety days.” He said, “I’m going to let you go this time. You’re lucky.” My bailiff or whatever, he says, “I’m going to go get a release.” That’s the time I sobered up. I remember that, yeah, in ’82, in May, I guess. I said I’d go to detox. Before I did that, that’s when I thought I was going to jump off the freeway. I remember that. Yeah, you don’t forget something like that. I remember like it happened yesterday. I was sober and everything. That’s when my brother said, “We have got a live one here.” I remember that. So many guys, they came from another [unclear]—I don’t know if that was Sioux or what, but we always hang around a lot of Sioux. [unclear] Sioux. That’s when I’d hang out over there, I think. We had all the tribes, Pima and everything, Kiowa and all that, Chippewa, Choctaw. There was a lot of Siouxs over there, I mean back in the day, I mean, at the Moulin Rouge.
BAYHYLLE
At the bars?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. That went on for a while, I guess.
BAYHYLLE
It sounds like you had a rough time, and your brothers and sisters had a rough time, your family. How was it for your parents? How did they do? Did they start drinking, too, or were they able to—
BIG SOLDIER
My dad used to slap my mom and everything.
BAYHYLLE
So he would abuse your mother?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
He was drinking?
BIG SOLDIER
In ’63, I remember that. He almost threw her out the window one time.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, gosh.
BIG SOLDIER
We had to stop him. My sister was—I think she had some friends over. I don’t quite remember. I don’t know if I got traumatized with it or what. I don’t remember. I remember that he was going to throw her out the window, and the cops came, took him to jail. Of course, we forgave him like nothing had happened. [unclear] the place that we moved to, yeah, because they were drinking. There would be fighting and everything. Yeah, he died due to drinking too. My mom passed away first. She had cirrhosis. I don’t remember the year. I [unclear] her death certificate. I never done that. [unclear] my dad too, because my mom passed away first. [unclear] was working at the Indian Center, yeah. Had to be ’75.
BAYHYLLE
What did she die of?
BIG SOLDIER
Cirrhosis.
BAYHYLLE
So she was drinking as well?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, looked like she was pregnant. You big in the belly, look like you’re pregnant.
BAYHYLLE
Swollen.
BIG SOLDIER
It burst or whatever. She died that day, or that night, I guess. Took her to the hospital. She looked like she was sober. “I’ll see you guys later,” and gave her a hug and kiss and everything. That was the last time I saw her. [unclear] bad luck. They want to send my mom back home, Indian burial, back to Wisconsin. She’s back over there like my dad, too, when he passed away. We sent him back. [unclear] the service, the army, they pay for everything. He was in the service. They’ll pay for everything because he’s a veteran, so that was good news.
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, that helped.
BIG SOLDIER
I never went back. I regret that too.
BAYHYLLE
You never went back to Wisconsin?
BIG SOLDIER
My mom and dad was buried out there. I don’t know. I should have went back with them, took the body back. We never did. [unclear] drinking ways, whatever.
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, it’s hard to make those kinds of decisions when you’re drinking, isn’t it?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, when you got a hangover or—
BAYHYLLE
When you were growing up as a boy, did you ever go back to Wisconsin to visit?
BIG SOLDIER
Never went back home. No, not yet.
BAYHYLLE
What about your parents? Of course, prior to passing away, did they ever go back to Wisconsin and visit?
BIG SOLDIER
No, never.
BAYHYLLE
So as you were growing up then, you lived a lot of different places, went to a lot of different schools. What did you think about yourself, about being Indian? You always knew you were Indian, I guess, is that right?
BIG SOLDIER
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. [unclear] to be Indian, yeah. Yeah, it was rough, I guess. I mean, back in the seventies, [unclear] Wounded Knee and all that, and AIM. Oh, man, that was another thing the cops didn’t like.
BAYHYLLE
Here in L.A.?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, [unclear] AIM. [unclear] like a militant, like a Black Panther. You’re like a terrorist, I guess. I don’t know. That’s what they’ll say. I remember that.
BAYHYLLE
So the cops would let you know that they didn’t like AIM.
BIG SOLDIER
The LAPD [Los Angeles Police Department]. I heard that. That’s what I heard. They said, “[unclear].” [unclear] was claiming he was AIM, but he wasn’t.
BAYHYLLE
Who was this?
BIG SOLDIER
Some Indian guy. They beat him up. They beat the shit out of him.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, my god. Police did that?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. And that’s that a cop, that cop that didn’t like Indians at all. I don’t know. Something happened to his daughter or sister. She got raped or assaulted by some Indians. Oh, man, he didn’t like Indians at all. One of my brothers beat the shit out of him in the alley. I remember that. He told me that. [unclear] white guy. [unclear]. He says, “I’m tired of your goddamn ass. I heard you’re a bad ass on the street,” and all that. My brother said he was [unclear], said, “We’re going to settle this shit once and for all,” and he took the handcuffs off, took his belt off, the cop. My brother, he beat the shit out of him.
BAYHYLLE
Your brother beat the cop up?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. Well, I guess he got so much of the—yeah, Indian guy beat him up or something like that. I guess he quit or resigned LAPD. He was a sergeant too. I remember that. God, that was [unclear]. He didn’t like cops at all. We used to be drinking at MacArthur Park.
BAYHYLLE
Your brother?
BIG SOLDIER
All of us. [unclear] bottles [unclear]. They wasn’t even open. He’ll break them just for the hell of it.
BAYHYLLE
Who would do that? Who would break them?
BIG SOLDIER
That cop, that sergeant.
BAYHYLLE
They were just harassing you then.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, they couldn’t do nothing. [unclear] sergeant, [unclear] do to him. He’s going to lie anyway. They’ll take his word against ours. We’re drunks and lowlife, I guess. I heard that term before, lowlife or whatever. “Ain’t gonna amount to nothing. You guys have to sober up.” I don’t know. Just growing up in L.A. I don’t know, just being sober, I guess, you go through hard times, but you’ve got to deal with it.
BAYHYLLE
When you were growing up, did you have any friends in school just to hang around with or play or go to their house or go on bike rides or something?
BIG SOLDIER
Oh, yeah. Yeah, hike around in [unclear] Park. Yeah, [unclear] as far as I know.
BAYHYLLE
When you were growing up, did you use any of the Indian services, your family? You said the church used to come and pick you up, take you to church. What about the Indian Center? Did your parents go down there for assistance in any way?
BIG SOLDIER
Services?
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, services.
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t know.
BAYHYLLE
You don’t remember that?
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t remember.
BAYHYLLE
Because they would have something to help you.
BIG SOLDIER
My dad was working, so I guess—their friends and that used to help us out, give us some money or whatever for food.
BAYHYLLE
Did you have a car, too, though, your dad?
BIG SOLDIER
He knew how to drive, but he didn’t drive that much. My mom too. I guess she knew how to drive, too, but she never—we never got around to that, to a car, and because she didn’t like driving in the city too. Out there in the back roads, [unclear].
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, that’s another thing. Right.
BIG SOLDIER
Oh, yeah, I mean, he knew how to drive.
BAYHYLLE
Where did you go when you or the kids or your parents or someone got sick? Where did you go for healthcare?
BIG SOLDIER
The county, at USC. Oh, yeah, my dad was working at—he was working a long time too. Custodian.
BAYHYLLE
At the county?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, making good money over there. We’d go visit him, too, on the bus, RTD downtown. I forgot what line that was. We’d go visit him.
BAYHYLLE
You and your mother and brothers and sisters?
BIG SOLDIER
I was sober. Yeah, I used to go visit him, sober for once. He’d stay on the wagon for a while, like, three, four months. Of course, he started drinking again. Man, but he always made it to work though, hangover or not. Yeah, it’s good money.
BAYHYLLE
How long did he work there?
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t know. I forgot. I mean, it was a long time. Five years, probably longer than that. Worked there for a while. I don’t know if he got laid off. I think he did get laid off. Something happened. I don’t know. Oh, yeah, that’s when he started working over at—oh, no, that was after that Triple-A. Sixty-three? Late seventies. Sixties, I guess.
BAYHYLLE
So it sounds like your dad could find jobs. He was able to find jobs and stay working, as you said, even though he’d go to work hungover sometimes. But he was able to, at least, keep working, right?
BIG SOLDIER
A working drunk. That’s what they call it in the program. When you need the money, you stay sober. I’ve done that myself when I was at work, have a hangover, but I’d go to work anyway. I need the money for payday and drink, party with some women friends of mine. Yeah, I remember those days.
BAYHYLLE
That was a pretty hard life. You’ve had a pretty hard life, LeRoy, but you’re doing much better now.
BIG SOLDIER
Oh, yeah. I stay sober.
BAYHYLLE
Stay sober and you’ve got friends, right? You’ve got some friends out there. I saw you talking to a couple of people.
BIG SOLDIER
Oh, yeah, I got a lot of friends, yeah, a lot of people I didn’t like either when I was sobering up. A lot of them are dead now. All the ones I didn’t like, they’re all dead and gone or back in prison.
BAYHYLLE
Oh, gosh.
BIG SOLDIER
Or looney tunes, insane or something. I don’t know what word you call that, state hospital.
BAYHYLLE
Just a few more questions, LeRoy. We don’t have much more, but I’m interested in how you—you seem to have had a lot of Indian friends and you stayed in the community, the Indian community. You were drinking quite a bit, I realize that, but what was the Indian community like here other than the drinking community? Did you ever have any contact with just the sober people that had a different lifestyle, or was most of your life spent in the drinking community or partying?
BIG SOLDIER
[unclear], mostly, [unclear] stay sober, going down the wrong path or whatever. We’re going to die. That’s the first thing they said, “You’ve got to sober up. You’re too young to die,” whatever. Because I’ve seen a lot of friends die like that. [unclear] sober up, [unclear] all your friends or whatever. I know one guy did that. That’s what I heard. He got mangled up pretty bad, but he killed his brothers and sisters.
BAYHYLLE
That’s terrible.
BIG SOLDIER
I thank god I never got into drugs. I smoked weed and that, but thank god. I was offered a lot of heroin and PCP. Thank god, I never took that. That drinking’s bad enough. I turned wino and everything. But my dad and mom, [unclear] nothing to drink and they hadn’t cared for wine that much. But, boy, a hangover, and I seen I don’t know how many bottles in there, like, four, five bottles [unclear]. That’s what he used to drink, Gallo.
BAYHYLLE
This was your dad?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. [unclear] some wine in there [unclear]. To hell with it. In the morning, they won’t get their checks, SSI and all that. My dad was in the army and that, army pension or what—and [unclear]. We started drinking their wine, turn wino. Yeah, that was bad. It wasn’t that bad. We didn’t like the taste, but when I had a hangover, I didn’t care. I remember that.
BAYHYLLE
Well, those are really all the questions that I have, or things that I brought to cover, LeRoy, what you remember about relocation, the project or your family coming, or anybody that’s talked about it or mentioned it, or anybody else that you knew that came out on it. What is your overall impression, do you think, of the relocation program?
BIG SOLDIER
From out here?
BAYHYLLE
Yes.
BIG SOLDIER
Coming out here?
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, coming out here and working and the whole program. You think it was a good thing? You think it worked and helped, or do you think it was something else?
BIG SOLDIER
Coming back out here. [unclear] my sister when she was born. That’s when we came out here. Me and my mom and dad and—my sister because I know she was born out there. Dang. Yeah, she had to be born out there. The rest of the other brothers and sisters, they lived out here. I mean, they were born out here.
BAYHYLLE
Let me ask you something. Were your parents already drinking quite a bit when they came out here already?
BIG SOLDIER
I think so, yeah.
BAYHYLLE
Do you think you would have had a different life if you’d stayed in Wisconsin?
BIG SOLDIER
I don’t think so. Everybody was drinking back there. Everybody was dying out there.
BAYHYLLE
And there was no work, you said.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. And snow. Yeah, that was another thing. So they say, “Go to sunny California, L.A. You have to go to L.A. Los Angeles, [unclear], way better.” Yet there was the earthquake, so—
BAYHYLLE
And the riots.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. Yeah, but I liked it. They liked it out there. That’s why we came out here, back in those days.
BAYHYLLE
Your parents never went back to Wisconsin to visit?
BIG SOLDIER
They always said they were going to visit, but they don’t save up and that. Or they want to take us back there, too, to visit our relative. We got a lot of relatives. It never came about, never did.
BAYHYLLE
So you have a whole community back there that you never got a chance to know.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, I got a sister living out there. My brother, he’s been out there, like, ten, twelve years now, but they’re working in the casino.
BAYHYLLE
That’s good. Have you ever thought about trying to go back there and find work?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, I was going to go out there. He told me I could move out there. I was going to do that a couple years ago. I was going to live with my brother.
BAYHYLLE
And then what happened? How come you didn’t go?
BIG SOLDIER
I changed my mind. No, no, I found work out here. What was I doing? I was doing security. That didn’t last. I don’t know. I just got bored with it. No, that’s when I got injured, hurt my leg. I was working at night, graveyard. I slipped and fell and broke my ankle [unclear], my kneecap. I didn’t see these—they had these [unclear] like a gas station. I was security guard there, working eleven to seven or ten to six or something like that.
BAYHYLLE
Night shift, then.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, I had a flashlight and everything. I didn’t watch where I stepped. I slipped on those little pipes. Boy, I went up in the air. Boom! I didn’t think nothing of it.
BAYHYLLE
You came down on your knee.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, my right knee here. It was all puffed up. Boy, that hurt. I called them. I told that supervisor. He said, “Oh, man, you should have got a lawyer, man. You should have sued their asses for that, man. They’re supposed to take you to the hospital right there. And you showed them?” I said, “Yeah, my whole knee was all puffed up like that, and he just wrote it down.” “Okay” And he just walked away. “Okay, you go home now.’” “Oh, man, that ain’t right. You got to get a lawyer, [unclear].”
BAYHYLLE
Did you sue then? You never sued?
BIG SOLDIER
No, the following day, that’s when I told him. He looked at my leg, the supervisor, because I had the key. I couldn’t work. I told him, “My one knee’s messed up.” I told him, “I fell down accidentally.” I told the supervisor. He wrote it down in that log. “Better get him to the hospital or he can sue us.” “They should have taken you right then and there, worker’s comp.” So I got workers’ comp, like, six months. So I just stayed home, got a check. I didn’t work or nothing.
BAYHYLLE
Did you have surgery on your knee?
BIG SOLDIER
No. They paid for it.
BAYHYLLE
It just got better on its own?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah.
BAYHYLLE
That was good.
BIG SOLDIER
So I was off six months, workers’ comp. I had to go back to work again. They give me the runaround and, “Oh, we haven’t found nothing for you. Just be patient.” That went on for months. I told them, “I can go back to work Monday.” It was healed up then, but he couldn’t find no work. I remember that. Yeah, I almost went out there that one time. He was going to fly me there. I never been on a plane either. I’ve been in a helicopter and that. [unclear]. I like to fly up. He would pay for my bus, my plane.
BAYHYLLE
Plane ticket?
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah. “Stay out here with me.”
BAYHYLLE
Get a job, right?
BIG SOLDIER
He said, “I’ll get you a job in there.” He said, “I guarantee you’ll get hired,” They want to hire you. They hired other people, minorities, but they try to hire our own tribe and that.
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, your own community member. Never thought of doing that anymore?
BIG SOLDIER
No. I was going to just work out there, but they’re going to put those five more, I hear. They’ll have, like, nine casinos up there. Already got four now, I think. Five more? He said, “That’s what they’re saying, right out there, I guess.” Chicago, Illinois. That didn’t go through, I guess. That’s going to be the biggest casino, way bigger than the one in Las Vegas. That’s what I heard.
BAYHYLLE
Wow.
BIG SOLDIER
Where they got to nine?
BAYHYLLE
There might be some opportunities for you there then.
BIG SOLDIER
Yeah, Chicago. I think it got turned down. They didn’t want us over there—
BAYHYLLE
Oh.
BIG SOLDIER
—because Las Vegas, they don’t like us, the Indians—
BAYHYLLE
Yeah, they’re taking away some of the business.
BIG SOLDIER
I know because the Indians out in California, everybody [unclear]. Yeah, they’re all doing good. They’re going to Las Vegas. They’re giving away money, cars in there. That’s what they do in Wisconsin, too, give money away.
BAYHYLLE
Well, LeRoy, those are all the questions that I have. I’m going to turn the machine off now. [End of interview]
Date: 2013-12-16