Interview of Reve Gipson

1. Transcript

1.1. Session 1 (April 9, 2008)

Stevenson: Good morning. I'm conducting an interview with Reve Gipson on Wednesday, April ninth. Good morning, Reve.

Gipson: Good morning.

Stevenson: I'd first like to ask you when and where you were born.

Gipson: I was born in Los Angeles, California, at the South Hoover Medical Center. I was born on January the fourth. Is it necessary that I give the year?

Stevenson: No.

Gipson: Okay. That's when I was born, so I'm a native.

Stevenson: Native Angeleno.

Gipson: Right.

Stevenson: I'd like you to tell me something about your family history, your parents and your grandparents.

Gipson: Okay. My father, the late J.T. Gipson, was the entertainment editor for the Los Angeles Sentinel newspaper. Let's see. My father had left and gone to, I can't remember what city, for a few weeks, and during that time his column was due and my mother decided she would go on and write it for him. Of course, people didn't realize that he was gone. That's kind of how my mother really got started in this, because as the years went by, my mother became the entertainment editor for the Sentinel for years and years. As a matter of fact, for over twenty-five years, I believe. She also wrote for the, I think it was called the Herald Dispatch newspaper.

Gipson: And let's see. My grandparents. Well, my grandmother on my mother's side was from Virginia. She was born and raised in, I think it was Virginia. Oh, but I really should back up. My mother was born in Ocean City, New Jersey. My father was born, I believe, I want to say Stamps, Arkansas. My grandmother was from, I want to say like Newport News, Virginia, somewhere down in there. I didn't know my grandfather on my mother's side, but I know that he had the first black hotel, I believe it was, in, I want to say Ocean City, New Jersey, called the Randolph Hotel, and he was a chef there. He and my uncle had the hotel together. Then my uncle moved out to Los Angeles. He was a minister and he founded the Good Shepherd Baptist Church, which is still in existence. When he decided to move to Los Angeles, that's when--of course, my mother was very, very young, I mean probably four or five years old. They all moved out here together. So consequently, that's how I was born in Los Angeles, because my mother was in Los Angeles.

Stevenson: I see. For the record, your mother's name is Gertrude?

Gipson: I'm sorry. My mother's name was Gertrude Gipson. I've never really had anyone to ask me questions like this and I hadn't really thought about it in years.

Stevenson: In terms of your grandparents, as a follow-up, could you tell me what you know about maybe their education and maybe the type of area they came from?

Gipson: I don't really know that much about their education. I know that somehow or another [President] Andrew Jackson, who was president many years ago, had something to do with my grandmother's side of the family. So somehow or another we supposedly were related to him, but it's weird because I've never even discussed that before. I don't really know my grandmother's education. I know she did go to school; I don't know how far she went. I'm assuming she probably did not go to college because they couldn't afford it. My grandfather, I don't really know that much about his educational background. That's something I really should have checked on.

Stevenson: Maybe you could tell me something about your father's education and what you know about his upbringing and that sort of thing.

Gipson: Well, my father, of course, he went to high school and I think he did do some college, but I don't recall what college he went to because that would have been in Arkansas. Unfortunately, in talking to his relatives, they never really told me anything about that, and I guess I really never asked. Since this is the first time in my life anyone has asked me all this I never thought about it, which is really a shame.

Stevenson: Would you happen to know what the reasons were for your family migrating, as many people did, to Los Angeles?

Gipson: Yes, of course, I know that. What happened, my uncle was offered several churches here in Los Angeles. He had a very big church in, I believe it was Atlantic City; Baptist. He was offered several churches here to come and preach, where their ministries might have passed or gotten sick or whatever. One church he felt was a very good offer and so he came out here, and his wife, whose name was Gertrude, whom my mother was named after, because his name was Reverend Grant Harris, and my aunt, her name, like I said, was Gertrude, but we called her Ma Harris. They talked my grandmother--because my grandfather had just passed--he died from pneumonia, so they talked them [my grandmother and her four children] into coming out here with them because they were all so very close. So that's how it all came about.

Stevenson: I see. So maybe you could tell me how your father started working for the Sentinel and approximately what year that would be.

Gipson: I don't remember the year. Obviously I wasn't born when he started writing for the Sentinel, but I know he wrote, this was during the years when they were on Central Avenue, the Los Angeles Sentinel newspaper. The publishers, they just, oh, god, they were crazy about my father. He could do no wrong. Again, my mother I don't think--well, they weren't married then, but I don't really think she really planned on being a journalist; I think it just kind of happened. Of course, she turned out to be a great one. I don't remember-I mean I don't know the year, and it's unfortunate that I've never asked. I mean, I could ask research perhaps at the Sentinel, but I know that his column was like, from what they tell me, it was kind of like a black Walter Winchell, and of course, Walter Winchell was a very well-known columnist in Los Angeles years and years ago. But I can remember when my father passed, trying to reach Walter Winchell to let him know, because I remembered my father telling me he was close with Walter Winchell. I was very, very young when my father died. They told me it was like impossible to get to Walter Winchell. I got to him. He had a suite where the Cocoanut Grove was on Wilshire Boulevard. It was the Ambassador Hotel, that's what it was. I talked to him and he was very saddened about it. Again, I don't really know how they met.

Stevenson: So I think your father had some connections within the entertainment industry, such as Walter Winchell.

Gipson: Right, Walter Winchell, Lena Horne [Helena Mary Calhoun]. That's really how my mother met all those people initially, like Lena Horne and Dorothy [Jean] Dandridge, they were all at my parents' wedding. Of course, I wasn't born then. They tell me it was like quite the wedding of the year, because my father was extremely good-looking. He and my mother looked like sister and brother, though. He had the big dimples and women loved him, and he could write and he knew what to say. But I was saying that to say that he was a people person. I'm trying to think of some other entertainers that he was really friendly with, but I guess like all the big-time entertainers in that era. Then when my mother came along, she was close with the entertainers in that era.

Gipson: Because I never had any intentions upon being a publicist. I had majored in religion because I was very interested in learning about different religions. Then my mother convinced me into majoring in journalism with a minor in speech, because she said that she thought this would be a little more productive for me, and that's what happened.

Stevenson: I'd like if you could talk about your mother's upbringing, and actually I'd like you to talk at length about your mother, because I think that's very important.

Gipson: Well, my mother, as I said, was born in Ocean City, New Jersey, came to Los Angeles, she and her two brothers and her one sister, when she was a very young girl. My mother attended, I want to say John Muir Junior High, and then she went to [Thomas] Jefferson High School. Then she went to Los Angeles City College. I think during the time she was in college she met my father and they got married. I'm trying to think, though. My mother wanted to do something else in life, because she wanted to go on to a higher college, a higher-grade college and get a degree, and then I came along. So that kind of confused things for a minute. Then my mother went on to become a writer with the Herald Dispatch newspaper. With the Los Angeles Sentinel newspaper she became entertainment editor. She also was the first black commissioner appointed by Governor Edmund [Gerald "Pat"] Brown, I believe. She was commissioner for the motion picture industry [California Motion Picture Development Council]. Golly, I have all that information written down; I should have brought it. She had her own radio show on Stevie Wonder's radio station, KJLH. She was publicist when I was a kid for people like the late Sam Cook, Diana Washington the vocalist, oh, my god, so many people.

Gipson: Then fifty years ago she started--well, she was doing publicity for a beer called Rhine Gold Beer, and from that name Rhine Gold, I think she came up with the name Regalettes for some reason, and she started a social and charity club called the Regalettes, who have done tremendous things in the community. I mean, they have given away so many scholarships for underprivileged kids. They have a wing at St. Jude's Hospital named after them. My mother was just like a jack-of-all-trades. I mean, aside from being a great journalist, because myself personally I never liked to write--my mother kind of forced me into it--she was a brilliant writer, she was a heck of a cook, she was a seamstress, she made all my clothes when I was in grammar school. Well, all my really cute little clothes. I mean, she bought a lot of them, but my little skirts and tops, because she liked to sew. She played the piano, which she would only play at church. As a matter of fact, I think she was the pianist for the children's choir when she was young. She was extremely versatile. I don't really think that she got her proper dues while she was living, because she helped so many people. She kept the bad publicity out, the good publicity in. I mean, she was just really a great person.

Stevenson: What was her motivation for starting the Regalettes?

Gipson: She felt, I think, that there was a need for a really good social and charity club in Los Angeles, not that there were not others, but she felt that there was a need for another one. The people in the club were all dynamite people, great occupations, great backgrounds. The club went on to do wonderful things, like they would have fashion shows at the Playboy Club, they would have garden parties at the Ambassador Hotel in the gardens, which to my knowledge they were the first Afro-American group or group, period, that the hotel even let have anything like that there. The women would wear hats made out of fresh flowers. Their entertainment would be like Marvin Gaye, Sammy Davis Jr., Nancy Wilson, all on a Sunday afternoon. The money raised would, of course, go for various charities in the community. They would do boat rides. All these things took place during times when people really weren't doing things like this. So I think my mother was really ahead of her time thinking-wise, and she made sure the Regalettes always did wonderful things and they always helped other people that were less fortunate than themselves. But they had some great events, events that at that time I took for granted, because I'm young, I didn't know, but I just thought anyone could get a Marvin Gaye and a Lena Horne to stop by, and whoever else. I did not know that wasn't the case.

Gipson: Then my mother went to Monday Celebrity Nights. Oh, let me back up. My parents had a nightclub. My parents had a nightclub in Los Angeles called The Oasis. The Oasis was the club--no, I'm sorry, first it was called The Oasis. The club was then called the Night Life, and on the side of it was a little lounge called the-- Let's see, the Night Life was the club. What was that lounge called? Wow. See, you're asking me questions that no one's asked me, as I said earlier. What was the lounge called? I can't remember what the lounge was called. But anyway, it was on Western Avenue, and at this time my father, my biological father, had passed, so my stepfather, whose name was Elledge Penland, who really raised me, and he and my mother had this club together, and people like Ike and Tina Turner would rehearse there, Ray Charles would rehearse down there. It was just a great club. My mother used to have celebrity fashion shows there in the summer and Bill Cosby and his wife would come. Everyone that thought they were someone would come through this club. Oh, the lounge was called The Red Carpet, and the lounge, they would have people like Booker T. Jones playing the keyboards in there, because it had a keyboard. Billy Preston would come by--he was real young--and he would play. The club would have such great entertainment. I was really young and I can't remember all the entertainment, but it was "the" club where everyone went.

Gipson: Then when they sold the club, my mother started doing Monday Celebrity Nights. Now, during this time she was still with the Sentinel newspaper the whole time and she would do celebrity nights at a club on Crenshaw Boulevard called The Pied Piper, which is no longer there. The club was owned by a gentleman named Freddie Jett . It was Freddie Jett's Pied Piper. My mother really put the club on the map. Her celebrity nights, she would honor people like Josephine Baker. Oh, my gosh, she's had everyone there. She had Marvin Gaye. She had all these guys. The Everly Brothers. I mean, you name it, she had them. It was free of charge and she would give them an honor for the contributions they had made musically in the community, and it was just the kind of club where Richard Pryor would stop by there on a Monday just to see what my mother was doing. Ray Charles, he and I got together. At this time I was just out of college and I was working for Capitol Records as their first black publicist worldwide, and Ray Charles and I decided we'd play a joke on my mother. So what we did was, it was my mother's birthday, and I told my mother that I was honoring Ray Charles down there, because my mother would make me work for her some Monday nights, even though I was working every day at Capitol Records. If she didn't feel like going to work on Monday, then she'd ask me to come down and I would emcee the show for her and follow through with whatever she wanted me to do. Anyway, this particular Monday, Ray Charles was there, and as far as she knew, I was honoring him. Well, the club was packed; you could not get in. I mean, it was just phenomenal. All of a sudden, when it was time for me to give Ray his award, Ray and I said together, because I'd known Ray since I was a kid, because my play Uncle, Joe Adams, managed Ray Charles, and managed him up until his death, but anyway, so Ray Charles and I got on the stage and we proceeded to tell my mother that, no, this was not a salute for him, even though it's packed and everyone there is thinking it's a salute, instead, it's a surprise birthday party for her. So needless to say, she was overwhelmed and that was a great night.

Stevenson: Okay. Can I ask you, in terms of the twenty-five years of your mother's writing for the Sentinel as the entertainment editor, were there many opportunities where she wrote about maybe discrimination against the entertainers?

Gipson: Yes. Yes, absolutely. Of course. Yes, she did. My mother really spoke her mind and people, you know, they knew that. So yes, I mean, she wrote about everything. Everything.

Stevenson: Can you recall maybe a particular instance that you might have been aware of where she had an opportunity to write on discrimination against a particular celebrity or as it related to the entertainment industry, even?

Gipson: Well, I know she always felt that Sidney Poitier was brilliant. I think a lot had to do with that was the fact that when Sidney Poitier came to Los Angeles, someone had told him--and when he came here he had no money, and he tells this story frequently, he had no money, he knew no one, but someone had told him to get in a touch with a lady named Gertrude Gipson, who was the first person he met when he came to Los Angeles. So as a kid, having Sidney Poitier at my dinner table was like having my mother and father there. I mean, it was just, "Okay, so Uncle Sidney's here tonight." To watch his career, you know, from a young kid, it was just phenomenal. I say that to say, she always felt he was brilliant acting-wise, and this is before anyone knew his name. So I knew she used to write about him often. As I said, he was always at our house. He and Muhammad Ali, I used to think they were fixtures, they were always there. Sidney and my mother became friends through the years. He is not the type of person that, nor was Muhammad Ali, that forgets someone when they really become very well known.

Gipson: But Sidney I remember as a kid, and which now, of course, he is my sister's godfather, but my sister wasn't born during that time, but it was just so phenomenal to see this black man that spoke so eloquently, that was just such a sweet and lovable person and he was an actor, because of course I didn't know that much about acting when I was a young kid. But, yes, she used to always say that he was really going to be something, he was going places. But again, as I mentioned a moment ago, when he tells this story about Gertrude Gipson, because I recently had the pleasure of seeing him out and he was with Oprah having lunch at a restaurant. I excused myself from Oprah, I said, "Please forgive me for intruding, but I just wanted to kiss him and say that I loved him." He proceeded to tell her the whole story about how, oh, you know, "Their mother was the first person I met in Los Angeles," and all that.

Gipson: But, yes, she wrote about everything. Everything. And she was usually the one that would break the stories in terms of entertainers. Like if someone was getting a divorce or whatever, she may not--because she had a way of writing things where she might not say the names, but you knew who it was. And it was exciting. To me, as I look back over those days, that was excitement. I mean, it was like people would pick up the Sentinel, and certainly they loved the Sentinel in general, but to get that entertainment, the entertainment section and the family section, which was ran by Jessie Mae Beavers, that was exciting. Those were exciting times. I didn't think about that until now that you're asking me these questions, because you have woke up--you know, you've made me think about things that I haven't thought about in years.

Stevenson: How do you compare those exciting days with, say, today, in terms of when you say exciting times?

Gipson: This is a different era. This is a totally different era. To me personally it's not as exciting as it was then. In my opinion, it was so much education to be learned even in reading one's columns then. Now, I mean, things are so different now. I don't even know if it's fair to compare as such, but these are different times. I mean, I listen to some of my mother's friends talk about the fun they had years ago, referring to the Dunbar Hotel on Central Avenue or the barbecue places, Black Dot McGee's barbecue place on Central [Avenue], and it's weird how as a kid I used to hear all this stuff and I remember it. It was just different; it was totally different. Now it's like, I don't know, it's a different era.

Stevenson: Do you have any recollection or would you have been too young to recall much about Central Avenue in its heyday?

Gipson: Well, I can just remember, I can remember a few things, like, of course, the Sentinel newspaper was on Central, because I used to go there all the time. I felt like I lived there sometimes, because I was with my mother all the time there. But Central Avenue as a whole, I would hear a lot about it, but I didn't really experience any of it. I would just hear what fun they had at the different clubs, the restaurants. They had, like I said, the barbecue places, the drugstore on the corner, you know, things like that, but I didn't really experience a lot of that. I remember vaguely when the Sentinel was on Central Avenue. I remember Connor Johnson Mortuary being there and I remember Angelus Funeral Home was like on Jefferson Boulevard, not far from Central Avenue. Things like that. But again, I hadn't even thought about these things until this very moment and it's a lot of history. I mean, it's a lot of history there. I just think that young people today, it's so much history about this city, Los Angeles, that I really hope that they have the opportunity to read about it and learn about it, because it's a lot to be said. These things, I mean there are so many people that have laid the groundwork for things that people are doing today that they take for granted. I mean, even voting. People fought so we could vote. You know what I mean?

Stevenson: Yes. I'd like to backtrack a little bit and talk about, if you could tell me about your neighborhood when you were growing up. Where did you grow up here in Los Angeles?

Gipson: I grew up on the east side of Los Angeles at 320 East Jefferson Boulevard. I didn't even know the other side of the city existed. I didn't know that there was a Beverly Hills, the Baldwin Hills, the View Park, LaBrea [Avenue]. I didn't know about that. They were fun days. On Jefferson Boulevard, my uncle, who I referred to earlier, the minister, and his wife, they had this huge home on Jefferson and we lived there. We all lived there together. Then as the years went on, my parents bought a lot, a vacant lot. No, let me back up. As the years went on, my parents bought a home on Hillcrest Drive, which was right off of Adams Boulevard and that was really nice. That was fun. Nice neighborhood. I went to--well, I went to Trinity [Elementary School] and Wadsworth Elementary School, but then when we moved, I went to Los Angeles High School. Then while we were living on Hillcrest, my parents bought a vacant lot in an area called Baldwin Hills near LaBrea [Avenue] and Crenshaw [Boulevard] area. Then they contacted the architect Paul Williams to design the home, which he later did. Of course, the home is still there and we still have the home.

Gipson: Let's see. Then I went on to, let's see, after Los Angeles High, I went to [Los Angeles] Valley College, took some classes at UCLA [University of California, Los Angeles], USC [University of Southern California] in journalism. Got a scholarship to Howard University that I didn't take, because I didn't want to leave home, which kids today, I mean, if they have opportunities for scholarships, leave home, go. Then, let's see, I'm trying to think. I didn't graduate from college. I should go back and graduate. But there were two job openings that I read about.

Gipson: Oh, let me back up. I wrote for the Sentinel newspaper from grammar school. My first column was when I was in grammar school, through college. I was the youth editor at the Sentinel. That was fun. Wow, I'd forgot about all this. I did some writing, some freelance writing for other publications. Then I decided that I wanted to get something else, so there were two job openings, I remember, in the newspaper. One was for Orange Julius, and I love Orange Julius. So I said, oh, that'd be great. Then the other was for Capitol Records. So I applied for both of them, got them both, and I was really a hard decision, because I loved Orange Julius, but I went ahead and took it at Capitol Records as a secretary. As a few years passed on, I said to myself, I wanted to advance at Capitol and people told me, "Well, no, just be happy you're a secretary." You know, my friends would tell me that.

Gipson: I said, "No, that's not good enough."

Gipson: So I became friendly with the chairman of the board and the president of Capitol, and as time went on, they promoted me to the first black publicist worldwide for Capitol Records. They didn't really advertise it, because Capitol had been in existence for a long time then, and to think that I'm the first black publicist worldwide, you know, that probably would not sit that great. So anyway, I worked at the building that they say Nat King Cole built, and that was on Vine [Street]. I had about thirty-five artists. I had, oh, my god, I had Ashford & Simpson. I had a Taste of Honey. I had Tina Turner, but what happened with Tina, Tina was making a comeback and the record company seemed to feel that it would just be okay, so they gave her to me, not knowing that Tina used to be our neighbor. So I knew Tina Turner. Then she and her husband, Ike, at that time, they rehearsed and worked at my parents' nightclub, but the record company didn't know any of that. So I was her publicist.

Gipson: Now, this was during her comeback that they didn't really feel would be that great. That's why I had her. So of course, the rest was history. I must admit, though, I had to literally beg newspapers to do stories on her, and this was before her comeback album came out, because they did not feel it was going to do anything. Of course, I told them, "If it does, you'll be the first on the list and we'll come back to you right away," and that's what happened and that worked out really good. So I did all Tina's publicity.

Gipson: Then I asked them would they give me a couple of white artists to work, because I didn't want to be stagnated. I didn't want people to think all I could do was black artists. So they did give me projects for Bob Seeger and Little River Band, which I really enjoyed. I stayed at Capitol Records for ten years and I decided on the tenth anniversary that I wanted to start my own PR firm. So I went in that morning with my reports and I told them that at the end of the conversation this would be my last day, and they were all flabbergasted. Then I got on the phone, called a couple of the artists to tell them I was leaving, and one artist said, "Listen, right before you start your own firm, would you just come and work for me for a couple of months?" That was a group called Frankie Beverly and Maze. I said, "Okay, but just two months," and I've been with them many, many years now. So that's what happened there.

Stevenson: I'd like to go back and if you could tell me, you said that you grew up in a couple of different neighborhoods, and tell me something about those neighborhoods, what the ethic makeup was, something about your playmates.

Gipson: Sure. Well, when I lived on 320 East Jefferson Boulevard, my playmates were, they had a few Hispanics there, but mostly, mostly in my neighborhood it was mostly blacks.

Stevenson: Golden State?

Gipson: Yes, Golden State, I believe. Was it Houston?

Stevenson: Yes.

Gipson: Golden State, I think it was Houston. I think it was Houston. Golden State. Then my neighborhood on Hillcrest Drive, on the west side of Los Angeles, was mostly Jewish, because the Jewish synagogue was on the corner. Then there was Delight Bakery next to that and an ice cream parlor. There were a lot of Jewish people in that area then and they were gradually moving out. Of course, there were blacks, as well. I don't recall any Hispanics then. There was a lot of Jewish people then, though. Yes, there was, and they were gradually moving out. My playmates were Jewish and black. Over there I went to Virginia Road Elementary School, which I think one of our distant cousins was the principal. I think her name was Miss Burke. I went to Audubon Junior High.

Stevenson: Could you tell us something about your elementary school experience, in particular any memorable teachers that influenced you?

Gipson: Oh, my god, yes. There was a teacher at Virginia Road, his name was Edward Sparrow. Oh, my gosh. He was the best. I don't know if he's still living or not. But I remember I was kind of a talker in class and he used to always throw the erasers at me. He was such a wonderful teacher. He was all about us knowing about our history and what was going on then and what would be going on tomorrow. He was just absolutely wonderful. That teacher, and then at Audubon I was in the chorus and Albert McNeil was the director, and if you couldn't sing, you thought you could sing, because he was so great. Those two teachers--god, this is the first time in my life anyone's ever asked me about my teachers. I think it's the first time in my life I've ever given an interview, too, now that I'm thinking about it. But those two teachers were phenomenal because they wanted the students to do more and be more than what they thought they could be.

Stevenson: So you did have black history at that time?

Gipson: I did, yes. Well, I did and I didn't. I don't know if it was a black history class as such, but yes, we had it.

Stevenson: Okay. So if you could move on and tell me something about your high school experience, again racial, ethnic makeup of the student body.

Gipson: Oh, absolutely. At L.A. High School, and ironically enough, there were like six of us that hung around together. We ate lunch together, we went out on the weekends together, six black girls who have all become wonderful professional women. I mean, just absolutely great. But I used to branch off and I was also friendly with some of the Jewish kids and the Orientals. There was one guy that I used to share my lunch with. I would sneak him half of my sandwich when my mother would make my lunch, because I thought he was very poor. I used to feel kind of sorry for him. This is a great story. Graduation day, he gave me a necklace to thank me for what all I'd done, and he said, "But I must share this with you, Reve." He said, "I used to love your mother's sandwiches, but my parents used to tell me that I shouldn't have taken your sandwiches because during all this time my parents owned a chain of the grocery stores in Los Angeles," which were very well-known grocery stores. So, see, he wasn't poor, but I thought he was poor. So he and I were friendly during school. Then I was also friends with the Orientals. I was friendly with all of them, with everybody.

Stevenson: Maybe you could talk a little bit, if I could find out, what years were those that you were at L.A. High?

Gipson: You know, I really don't discuss years as such.

Stevenson: Okay.

Gipson: But it was certainly before they remodeled the school. The school has since been remodeled, and I know that years are so important in this and I didn't think about that until now. But the bell was still there. During the time I was at L.A. it was definitely--I don't know if it's still mixed, as such, but there were Jewish, Orientals, blacks, a few Hispanics, not a lot, but it was definitely mixed.

Stevenson: The teachers and administrators?

Gipson: Mixed.

Stevenson: Mixed as well?

Gipson: Mixed, yes.

Stevenson: I see. I'd like to find out what role religion played in your upbringing, in your home.

Gipson: Okay. Well, it played a very significant role because my uncle was a minister and, like, I never learned how to play cards, because cards were not allowed in our home. We could not do any washing of clothes, going to the movies, on Sundays. Sunday I was in church all day. That's why I think I know every gospel Baptist song there is, because I heard them over and over and over. My parents were extremely strict on me in coming up. On Sunday mornings I went to Sunday school, then there would be morning service, which would be at eleven. Then after morning service you come home, you have dinner, which was normally chicken with--we had chicken, rice, and yellow gravy, which I never understood how my grandmother did this gravy, but I later found out it was food coloring, and vegetables. Then we'd have, later that evening we'd have ice cream and cake. But then we'd go back to church for what was called Baptist Training Union, BTU. Then after BTU was night service. So I was in church day and night.

Gipson: So as the years went on and I was in high school and I said--you know, I had to go to church every Sunday. I mean, it was not an issue; I was in church. I said to my uncle, I said, "You know, I'd like to have a gospel program. Since I have to be at church every Sunday, I want to have a program where my friends can come to, a little musical." Now mind you, I just wanted to have one program.

Gipson: My uncle said, "That's a fine idea."

Gipson: I said, "I want to raise enough money to build--with this one program to build a water fountain on the front of the church."

Gipson: He said, "Oh, that's fine." My uncle always encouraged me. He felt I could do everything and anything. He felt if I wanted to go to the moon, I could go. He was like probably my greatest inspiration.

Gipson: So, okay, so I have this one program. Now, mind you, I'm in high--no, I wasn't in high school; I'm telling a story. At that time no, I was like thirteen years old. So what I did, I had one of my relatives to drive me around town, and at that time--this is really crazy--there were prostitutes on the corners where they're not now like they were. You know, just all kinds of crazy things, you know. I would go up to the prostitutes and I would tell them about my church program and I'd give them a little flier that I had made. Now, this was for this one program, mind you, the first program I had and I'm about thirteen years old. All the prostitutes came. Everybody I invited came. Actually, the prostitutes probably gave the most money in the offering, now that I'm thinking about it. But this was for this one program.

Gipson: I think I was about, oh, god, I must have been about seven, eight hundred dollars short from getting this water fountain, which the man that was making the water fountain, his place was on Avalon. His name was Mr. Pelka. How do I remember that? He later went on, his company, to make the water fountain that's in front of Century Plaza Hotel.

Gipson: But anyway, so my uncle said, "Well, we're a little short." So he said, "You might have to have another one."

Gipson: So that next year I had another one. And to make a long story short, I had many after that, and these were programs where I have helped or assisted, I should say, to send probably over three hundred kids to college at this point, and I've had every major entertainer that you could think of attend, from Aretha Franklin to, oh, my god, to Stevie Wonder. Jack Kent Cooke, who two years ago owned the Lakers, he sent his son, John Kent Cooke, who I became friends with, and he would come and help me support it. The program's called Youth on Parade, and I've been doing it since I was thirteen years old. But that's kind of how it started, and as I look back, if you could have seen me going up to prostitutes standing on the corner, giving them a little flier, telling them, "You need to come to church for my program."

Gipson: And they'd say, "Why?"

Gipson: I'd say, "Because you need to be there," and the fact they all showed up. I mean, it was phenomenal.

Stevenson: That's quite a tribute to you.

Gipson: It is. Then at that time the Muslims were prevalent in Los Angeles and they would be selling their newspapers and stuff, and I'd go up to them, and they would come to the programs. This was in the early years. When we had the riots in Los Angeles, something very unusual to me happened. A lot of the places surrounding my church were burnt down, but my church was saved. I often think about that and I don't know what that's attributed to, but anyway, I often think about that.

Stevenson: For the record, the church's name?

Gipson: Good Shepherd Baptist Church. It's on the corner of 53rd [Street] and Figueroa Avenue. Of course, my uncle passed and we've had about three ministers since that time.

Gipson: But, yes, religion played a very significant role in my life and still does, because I'm a firm believer that with perseverance and a lot of faith, you can do anything you think you can do, but you've got to believe, and you've got to believe in yourself, because if you don't believe in yourself, you cannot expect others to believe in you. Yes, that played a real significant role.

Stevenson: Going back to your childhood, at what age would you say you became aware of the concept of race? And also could you tell me whether it was discussed in your home specifically?

Gipson: That's a good question. That's a very good question, because as a child I did not at all. Wow. I guess probably maybe like junior high, maybe junior high or high school. I think really my eyes opened up in high school when there was a guy that I invited to my party I had, I was having a birthday party, and he and I are still friends. He was a real Jewish person; family was real Jewish. I invited him over, he came, and then I said to him, "Well, why don't you invite me to your home? I'd like to meet your parents."

Gipson: He said, "I can't," and he explained why, that his parents were not as open as mine. Oh, that hurt my feelings, you know, but I went home and my parents explained it to me.

Stevenson: Now, had your parents ever discussed with you any instances of bias or discrimination that maybe had happened to them or other family members?

Gipson: Yes. Oh, yes. Yes, of course. I mean, they couldn't drink out of the same water fountain. They had--you know, yes, all of that. And you know what? I feel that, of course, things are a little better, but it still exists. You know what I mean? It's still very prevalent. Yes, it's a little better. But, yes, they did discuss it with me and they would explain to me about different situations that they went through, you know, and particularly jobs, for jobs and different things like that. I can't remember any real, real incident, but I do remember them discussing it with me. Their thing kind of was you treat everyone the same. Again, I mean, I'm raised in a Baptist environment church, so you're nice to everyone. And it was very difficult, because I could tell, even in college, as I'm thinking about it, like in college, if the teacher favored me, then the other kids, the other races, they would become a little offended, and I didn't understand that, because I figured we're all one, but we really weren't, I guess, as far as they were concerned.

Stevenson: Another question I've been asking all my interviewees in this series is what experience they've had with light-dark skin color dynamics, I'll call it.

Gipson: Oh, my god.

Stevenson: If you could talk about that.

Gipson: Wow. That's really interesting.

Stevenson: And particularly for people outside our community that might not be familiar with that, with those experiences.

Gipson: Wow. You know, I have ran into situations where people did not--and I don't know if I'm answering this question properly. People would hire a light-skinned black before they would hire a dark-skinned black, because if you were light-skinned, but black, maybe they thought you were mixed with some other things, which you probably were, and they would prefer that over the real dark-skinned person. Even today I have seen situations where--I mean, I've known people that they will hang around with the light-skinned blacks and they will not fool with the dark-skinned blacks.

Stevenson: And these are black people?

Gipson: Yes, and these are black people who think that they're white sometimes, you know? Yes, I have.

Stevenson: Now, have you had any real personal experiences where another black person maybe had bias against you because of light-dark dynamics?

Gipson: Not really, I don't think. If so, I was not aware.

Stevenson: But you have observed other [unclear]?

Gipson: But I've observed it with other people.

Stevenson: I see.

Gipson: Definitely with other people. I mean, whereas an acquaintance of mine may want to--when I was younger, an acquaintance of mine might want to hang out with me instead of hanging out with another acquaintance we had that was much darker than me, because she didn't feel her parents would approve of it, which I, as you're talking to me about this, I totally had forgotten about those incidents, but that's so ridiculous, but it happens.

Stevenson: One further question. How have you seen that light-skin, dark-skin dynamic play out, say, in the entertainment industry?

Gipson: How have I seen how that played out. Break that down a little more for me.

Stevenson: Well, have you seen, say, preference for lighter skin in the entertainment industry or prejudice against darker skin in the entertainment industry, whether that be actors, actresses, singers?

Gipson: Well, hmm. Well, look at a Dorothy Dandridge, I mean, which my mother did her publicity, some of her publicity. I mean, she didn't really look black black as such. Gorgeous woman. Like a Halle Berry today. It was obvious, it's obvious, I mean she was able to sing in various hotels and lounges and things, whereas--I'm trying to think who I could compare her with. Maybe a Nat King Cole may not have been able to during a particular era because of the color of his skin. I had not thought about that. Or a Lena Horne, who, again, gorgeous, did not really look black as such. On the other hand, you have a Hattie McDaniel, the actress, who you knew she was black. Wow, that's something. I'd never thought about that.

Stevenson: So you're out of high school now. Could you tell me what your plans were, your goals were, after then? You mentioned going to Valley College.

Gipson: Well, I knew I had to go to college. There was no question about that. Again, I really wanted to major in religion because I was so interested in religion, because I had friends that were Jewish, friends that were white, friends that were Italian, and I wanted to learn about all of them. Again, my mother talked me into majoring journalism, and I never liked writing, but I did write. Even after my mother passed, I wrote for the Sentinel, I wrote her column for maybe a year or so. Then even now I do some freelance writing for the Sentinel whenever Danny Bakewell, [Sr.], the publisher, asks me to do so. But in terms of my goals, I just wanted to do the best I could at whatever I decided to do. I liked so many different things until I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do, and then my mother--as a kid, my mother had me taking piano lessons, dance lessons, violin lessons. I mean, she really was trying to make sure she didn't miss anything if there was any talent anywhere. And as fate would have it, I mean, I kind of like walked in her footsteps and became a writer.

Stevenson: Would it be safe to say there was a strong emphasis on education in your home?

Gipson: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely yes. Then, of course, when my sister was born, it was even stronger, it appeared. But my sister for some reason, she--I mean, oh, my god, because she has several degrees. She spent most of her life in school. Because after getting a degree in communications, then she got her law degree. So, yes, there was an emphasis on that. I think a lot had to do with the fact that during that era, you know, our parents couldn't afford to go to the best of colleges and they wanted the best for their kids, so they worked hard so that we could do it, so that we could go to college. Because most parents in my era, they had to work. I mean, they didn't have the time or the money. But, yes, that and religion played a very significant role.

Stevenson: So you majored in religion at Valley College, you said, or was it something else?

Gipson: Where did I major in religion? Was it USC [University of Southern California]? Golly, I started at--it might have been Valley. No, no, I was getting--yes, I did, I majored in religion, minored in speech for a minute, and then my mother made me change to journalism and speech. That's what it was. You know, I think that was USC, though. I went to so many colleges. I think it was USC.

Stevenson: Could you tell me when you first became aware in large measure of the Civil Rights Movement here locally and what your involvement might have been?

Gipson: Well, when I came aware, I guess that was during the Martin Luther King [Jr.] days. What was my involvement? Well, I guess my real involvement during that time, because I was writing and I would try to--we would write different articles, like I was youth editor at the Sentinel, and we would write different articles regarding all of that, because certainly, I didn't march or anything like that. I didn't do that. And I never met Dr. King. Matter of fact, when Dr. King died, which is very interesting, when he died, the Sentinel newspaper asked me could I do a feature on [Reverend] Jesse Jackson. I knew who he was, but I didn't really--I didn't know how to reach a Jesse Jackson. So what I did, I got in touch with Reverend C.L. Franklin, Aretha Franklin's father, and I knew he knew Jesse. So I said, "Listen, I've got to do this feature on Jesse Jackson for the Sentinel. I don't have but a week to get it together." I think I might have still been in school then. I can't remember that part. But anyway, he got on the phone, and C.L. Franklin was in Detroit, the minister at New Bethel Baptist Church in Detroit. He got in touch with Jesse, set up an appointment. I met Jesse at the Hyatt Hotel on Wilshire Boulevard, interviewed him, got the article to the Sentinel, and that's how I met Jesse Jackson, and Jesse and I have been friends ever since. But, god, I'd forgotten about that. So, yes.

Stevenson: I'd also like to talk about the first Watts rebellion in 1965.

Gipson: The first what? I'm sorry.

Stevenson: The first Watts rebellion in 1965. I've been asking everybody in this series what their impressions were of what the needs were in the community before this happened.

Gipson: Wow, that's a good question. What were the needs before? I have to really think about that one. That one I have to think about.

Stevenson: Okay. Well, maybe I can ask you where you were when this happened in August of 1965.

Gipson: I was in Los Angeles. What was I doing? I have to think about that. What was I doing when the riots happened? I know I was in Los Angeles. I can't remember--what year were the riots?

Stevenson: August of '65.

Gipson: Wow, August of '65. Oh, I know I was in L.A. and I can't remember--that one I might have to come back to, too. I have to think about that one.

Stevenson: Okay, in the next session we can come back to that.

Gipson: Okay. Yes. I think the question before that was you asked me--

Stevenson: What were the needs before or your impressions of what the needs were before, and I'd probably also like to talk about living over here in what would be considered the West Side, whether residents over here might have been somewhat removed from what was going on further east.

Gipson: We were. We definitely were.

Stevenson: So, yes, if you could talk about all that at the next session.

Gipson: Yes, we definitely were. Okay.

Stevenson: Okay.

Stevenson: Okay. All right. [End of April 9, 2008 interview]

1.2. Session 2 (April 15, 2008)

Stevenson: I'm continuing an interview with Reve Gipson on Tuesday, April 15th. Reve, I have a couple of follow-up questions from last week. When we were talking about your L.A. High School experience, could you tell me about any memorable teachers who influenced you, who took a special interest in you?

Gipson: I would really say that in high school, in high school I don't really remember a lot of memorable experiences with my teachers there. I think as I stated earlier, was in grammar school my teacher, Mr. Edward Sparrow, he has always been the one that has struck out in my mind, which is very strange when you think about it, because I can remember grammar school better than high school teachers. But he was just so knowledgeable about history then and history for the future. Like I can recall him telling us that one day soon they were going to have for women different colored stockings, not just brown, but they would be black, they'd be white. I thought that was just so interesting, because I couldn't even imagine that then. So I would have to say that, again, the teacher that I remembered the most was Mr. Edward Sparrow. I think a couple of years ago I found him in the phone book and I called him and thanked him, because even though he threw the eraser at me a lot for talking in class, he was probably the most--what's the word? Oh, gosh, he just, he was so encouraging, he was so inspirational and full of history. So I would have to, again, go back to Mr. Edward Sparrow. It's just weird how I even remembered his name, but yet you ask me about high school and I can't really think of any teachers in high school that stand out that great in my memory.

Stevenson: Also another follow-up, you were talking about being the first African American publicist at Capitol Records.

Gipson: Right.

Stevenson: For those people who might be listening to this interview, could you explain why they refer to the Capitol Records Building as the building that Nat King Cole built?

Gipson: Yes, of course. Because Nat King Cole [Nathaniel Adams Coles], his records sold so many millions of copies until they felt that this was definitely the house that he had built, and of course, his music is still selling tremendously well, and particularly the Christmas song that Mel Torme wrote along with someone else, which, as the story goes, that was written in the summer, it was hot, but it's just a phenomenal song today and such a great classic. But that's really why, because of all the millions records that he continues to sell.

Stevenson: Also I think at the end of the last interview I think we had you out of high school and into college at this point. Could you tell me something about your social life, what you did for recreation, for leisure, relaxation?

Gipson: Well, my family, they were very strict on me. So I did the typical normal things, going to parties, lots and lots of time at church activities, visiting a few of my friends maybe overnight, just a very few that my parents knew well. Like, for example, going over to Nat King Cole's home. At that time they were living at 401 Muirfield Road, right off of Wilshire Boulevard, and his oldest daughter, Cookie, well, we referred to her as Cookie, but her name was Carol [Cole], we were friends. I would spent the nights over there sometimes. My parents would only let me spend the nights at people's homes they really, really knew. As a matter of fact, it wasn't very many at all, but I remember that. That was very exciting because they had this huge house and if you wanted an ice cream sundae, oh, my gosh, it was like you were in the ice cream store. So that was a lot of fun.

Gipson: But that's what I did, go to church. Oh, we would go on family vacations every summer. My parents would take me to different recreation points and museums and try to let me learn as much as I could about black history, American history, and history in general. My parents really did try to expose me to a lot of different things. We didn't have a lot of money in those days, but I didn't know that. My parents just really worked hard so that I could see and do all these wonderful things.

Stevenson: I'd like to talk about the first Watts rebellion of '65. We started to talk about that last week. I'm particularly interested living on the West Side of what we called the West Side at that point. What were you perceptions of the Watts community, particularly in terms of what may have led up to the rebellion, your perception?

Gipson: Wow, that's a very good question. That's really thinking back several years ago. I think during that time, if I'm not mistaken, the unemployment rate was probably not good and there were probably a lot of people out of work. It was probably just a series of things. I think a lot of people were probably like--oh, how can I put this? They had a lot of things built up in them and when the riot took place, all these things released, for lack of putting it in a more eloquent way. But that was a very scary and frightening time in Los Angeles. Fortunately, I guess for us, we didn't live like in the heart of where it took place, but certainly it was on every television station and radio station in the country. I just really think it was a series of things that probably led up to the emotions that erupted after it took place. It was, oh, gosh, I mean, it was frightening, because at that point you didn't know if the world was coming to an end or what was going to happen or was the riot going to come all the way through the entire city. From what I can remember, I mean it was in certain areas, just basically certain areas of the city, but it was a very frightening time.

Gipson: But to answer your initial question, I just really think that it was when people started doing a lot of the things they did, it was a lot of things that were built up in them. That's what I think, and of course, I'm not an expert on that, and I really don't know for certain, but that's what I think, because I was very young then, much younger, and I just remember, oh, my god, you're not going to go in that part of town because everything going crazy. That was really something.

Stevenson: How connected would you say, not just your family, but people that you knew, friends, how connected to the Watts community? Because certainly many people on the West Side had relatives and friends in Watts.

Gipson: Right. We didn't have--to my knowledge, we didn't have relatives in that area, but we did have a lot of acquaintances over there. There were people that lost their businesses, and from what I can remember, from what I can remember, there was a guy that had a grocery store in that area and he was a Muslim, and rumor has it, and I don't know for a fact, that the police went in there and kind of beat him up, from what I remember, and to the point where he became paralyzed, because, I guess, during that time everyone was frustrated, the whites, the blacks, everybody. That was certainly a devastating thing. But we, again, didn't have relatives that I'm aware of, but we did have a lot of acquaintances that lost a lot of things.

Stevenson: One of the major reasons cited for the rebellion was police brutality or poor relations between the Watts community and the police.

Gipson: Right.

Stevenson: Of course, the event which touched off was that involving the young man--.

Gipson: Rodney King, was it? No.

Stevenson: That was the second one.

Gipson: That was the second one, yes.

Stevenson: Yes, [Leonard] Deaddwyler.

Gipson: Deadwyler, that's right.

Stevenson: Was the young man's name and the pregnant wife, which was the situation that touched it off. On the West Side, just to compare, how were the relations between the community here in the West Side and the police? I guess what I'm really asking, some of the complaints that they had in Watts, was that also happening on the West Side?

Gipson: That's true. There definitely was no great love between, at that time, between the police department and a lot of the blacks, and what you just said is absolutely correct, from what I can remember. It was horrible. It was absolutely horrible, and I'm sure that history will go down as saying that it certainly let the police department know that Afro Americans can stick together when they choose to. I definitely believe that. It's like I think if every black person in the United States of America did not go to a liquor store on a Friday night, I think that white America would totally become shook up. If blacks really stuck together on certain issues, it would really be great. That's just my opinion only. Because I think right now we're certainly showing that with the presidential election coming up between--we don't know if Hillary [Rodham] Clinton or Barack Obama will get the nomination, but blacks, as well as whites, though, are really coming out, but particularly the blacks. I mean, blacks that have never voted before and young people, young blacks and whites that have never voted before are coming out, which I'm saying that to say that it does show me that when people want to stick together, they can stick together.

Stevenson: I see. So after the Watts rebellion, did your family or the people you know on the West Side become involved in terms of addressing some of those positive factors that led up to the Watts rebellion?

Gipson: Yes. Yes, absolutely. There were all type of--what do you call them? All type of--oh, I can't think of the name where groups of people get together. Town hall meetings, so to speak, but at that time I don't think they were called that. But certainly churches were talking about it on Sunday mornings. It was a lot of conversation, but then a lot of times we have conversation and we talk about things, but we don't always follow through. But, yes, there was a lot of conversation about all of that during that time, without a doubt.

Stevenson: I'd like to talk about maybe your involvement with local black elected officials and whether that might have been being on committees as a part of organization or addressing specific issues.

Gipson: That's a good question. I'm not really sure, but let's see. There's a young lady that's like an aunt to me, Congresswoman Maxine [Moor Carr] Waters. I can't really remember in thinking over all that if the fact that I knew her played a significant role in how I felt about certain issues, because, god, I mean, I've known her all my life. Then, he's now councilmember, Bernard [C.] Parks. Well, I've known him, my god, for years and years, even before he became our chief of police, which I think he might have been our first black chief of police. I can't remember. Was he the first black? I think he was in Los Angeles.

Stevenson: Or was Willie [L.] Williams?

Gipson: No. No, Willie Williams was after Bernard. Yes, Willie Williams was definitely after Bernard. But that could, you know just being around those two people. Of course, I absolutely adored Tom [Thomas J.] Bradley. And of course, a lot of people don't know it, but Tavis Smiley, who now, of course, has his own syndicated radio and television show, he--and of course, I knew Tavis back in the day when he was like an aide to then Mayor Tom Bradley. He was not like an aide, he was kind of like a--what do you call it? He was like maybe doing internship as a student or something like that. So maybe knowing these people, maybe it did affect me in some kind of a way, you know, in terms of my thinking and how I felt about certain things regarding politics and politicians and all that. But those three people stand out in my mind, Tavis Smiley, well, Mayor Tom Bradley, Bernard Parks were the forepeople, and Congresswoman Maxine Waters. Yes.

Stevenson: Well, all that said, could you cite a particular issue that you may have felt strongly about where your friendship with one of those black elected officials had an influence, you know, maybe your viewpoint?

Gipson: That's a very good question. It was so many. I can't really think of any one particular one. I really can't. Wow. I can't think of any particular one issue.

Stevenson: Did you get involved in any of their campaigns?

Gipson: Yes, I did.

Stevenson: Maybe you could speak about that.

Gipson: Well, and speaking of campaigns, yes, I did. Well, I know when Bernard Parks was running for councilman and I was involved in that campaign. Of course, you know, chief of police that's not--I don't believe we vote for that, I don't think. But, yes, I did and I certainly learned a lot. I learned one main thing that at that time a lot of--we had a lot of people that weren't registered to vote and people weren't voting as--they weren't turning out as well as I thought they could have. They just weren't voting. I think that's what I really learned, that we had a lot of people in Los Angeles that were not registered and that did not take voting as seriously as I thought they should have. I mean, you know, we have a tendency sometimes to take things for granted and there were people that fought, died, and everything, so that we could now vote today.

Gipson: Now, I think, again, getting back to the election that's coming up for the presidency of the United States, I think people are realizing all that now for some reason. But, yes, that was the main thing I realized, that people did not take voting seriously, and I thought it was an honor. I mean, I feel it's an honor to vote. So that's how I felt about it.

Stevenson: Now, I think I'd like to go back and talk about your mother, Gertrude Gipson.

Gipson: Sure.

Stevenson: You refer to her wedding as being somewhat of a great social event.

Gipson: Right.

Stevenson: If you could elaborate on that.

Gipson: Well, of course, I wasn't here then, but based on what my mother's friends and my mother has told me was that it was really elaborate. Lena Horne, Dorothy Dandridge came, because they were friends with my father, who at that time was the entertainment editor. I can't remember if he was the entertainment editor then for the California Eagle newspaper or the Los Angeles Sentinel newspaper, but it was certainly one of the two. There were just celebrities everywhere based on what they tell me, and they were all because of my father. Then, of course, there were a lot of politicians there and socialites there because my great-uncle had a big church in Los Angeles during that time called Good Shepherd Baptist. His name was Reverend Grant Harris. He knew a lot of the politicians and the sheriffs and all of that, so they came. They just said it was just a fabulous event, and I think my mother had like a--her gown was white satin, and there were like twelve or fifteen bridesmaids and groomsmen. It was just like the wedding of the year. So I wish I could have seen it, but then I didn't come until later.

Stevenson: Could you maybe say something about the cohesiveness of our community in those days and maybe what made it so, maybe from what your mother has told you or other relatives?

Gipson: Hmm, cohesiveness of the community. That's a good question.

Stevenson: Also maybe what we can learn from how cohesive it was in those days, I think, in terms of what's going on now in the community, you know, what lessons can we pull from that.

Gipson: Are you referring to what was going on during that time or what are you--

Stevenson: I think when I say cohesiveness, the cohesiveness, which, for instance, allowed there to be many more black businesses than there are now and since, and just a range of things, including to some extent even upbringing of the children in terms of a cohesive community or a tight-knit community.

Gipson: Wow. Well, during those days, from what I can remember, there were certain areas where most of the black businesses were. I don't think they were as spread out then as they are today. It was certain areas where blacks lived, certain areas where the black businesses were, the black restaurants, the black hotels. I don't think they were as spread out. Certainly, today we're everywhere, whereas yesterday we weren't. Today it's kind of like--I mean, well, let me back up. I do believe that racism is still alive and well, but I think in my opinion there are more opportunities available to Afro-Americans today than ever before. Then it was not like now. Today you may go to a motion picture studio and the vice president may be black. You may go to a large corporation where the headquarters are based in a white area, and one of the key people are black. So things have changed. I mean, things have definitely changed. Back then I kind of feel like, you know, we were kind of like all in a certain area, so to speak. The area where the Central Avenue was, the Dunbar Hotel, the Clark Hotel, and those kinds of places, but now we're everywhere. So I mean things have changed. Things have changed.

Gipson: I mean, I don't know if I'm answering that adequately, but things have changed. I mean, these are better times for us, but I hope I live to see the day when they get even better. I mean, you know, we have a black-owned newspaper that's the largest black paper, well, here in Los Angeles west of the Mississippi. I mean, blacks are doing things, blacks are saying things, blacks are, I think, more respected now than they were years ago, and of course. But I think it all--a lot of it stemmed from those blacks that fought to get us the respect and the dignity that we can now have. You know, I don't think it just came overnight. There were blacks that really fought to get us where we are, and I think that in history we should really be--I mean, well, we should really pay attention to history and be aware of that and don't think it just happened, because it didn't.

Stevenson: Going back to your mother, could you tell me in more detail about her career as a journalist? I'm particularly interested in the California Eagle, and was the Herald Dispatch another paper that she wrote for?

Gipson: You know, I don't remember my mother writing for the Herald Dispatch. I remember the California Eagle, and, of course, the Sentinel, but as I said, I mean, it was somewhat of a fluke how my mother started writing, because my father had gone out of town for a few weeks and they needed his column, and my mother just went on and wrote it as though he was here. My mother was always a great writer, but I really think my mother could have been a lawyer. She was just good at history books and reading and all that type of stuff. But that's how it started, and it kind of got to the point when I was a kid, I mean, if blacks wanted to get something in the paper, they would inevitably call my mother and they would just hope that she would spell their name correctly, that's all, because they really wanted to get in there. She helped a lot of blacks. She really did publicity-wise. She was really respected in the industry because she really tried to keep a lot of the bad stuff out and put the good stuff in about black entertainers particularly.

Gipson: Josephine Baker, Sarah Vaughan, Diana Washington, Count Basie, Billie Holiday, Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin, were people that she could pick up a phone and talk to. The late Sam Cooke. There were just so many. Bill Cosby. I remember when my parents owned a nightclub and he and his wife, Camille, would come down there in the afternoons, because she would always have something going on, always. She really helped a lot of blacks, and it's just unfortunate that I don't think she ever really got the accolades that she should have. So often we wait until a person has gone and then we want to honor them, have stamps in their memory and all of that, and I don't understand why we can't really give people their accolades while they're living. I mean, of course, they do for a lot of people, but I mean so many people that have done so many wonderful things, that I just think deserve so much to get their flowers while they can smell them.

Stevenson: Could you tell me more about how she started writing for the California Eagle, which, of course, was I think the first major black newspaper here in Los Angeles?

Gipson: You know, I think my father must have written for them, too. That's a very good question. From what I've heard, golly, I think it was the publisher of the Eagle, I want to say her name was Mrs. Dones. I can't remember.

Stevenson: Charlotta Bass?

Gipson: Miss Bass, that was it. Mrs. Bass. I think she took a liking to my mother and just wanted her to write. That's right, Mrs. Bass. Oh, my god, I haven't heard that name in years. Yes, she just wanted her to write and she wrote. Then the Sentinel, I guess, came after that and I don't really remember how it came about or whatever as such, but, yes. That's really all I can remember about that part.

Stevenson: So in the last session you talked about your early career and what you did after going to college. You, of course, talked about your position at Capitol Records, and I think I'd like to hear more about that, especially being the first African American publicist for that record company.

Gipson: Well, I think as I mentioned, I started out as a secretary. I applied for a job like everyone did, as a secretary. So I became a secretary and then I was determined that I wanted to do more. I became friendly with the chairman of the board for Capitol Records, who at that time I believe was Baskar Menon, and I think at that time the president was Don Zimmerman. Well, I worked in the publicity department as a secretary, and the gentleman that was over that department, his name was Dan Davis, a wonderful guy. I can't remember exactly how it came about, but I told him I wanted to do more, and I said--I think he came up with the title "publicist, black product," and eventually we changed it to something else. But anyway, at that time I didn't realize that I was about to become the first black publicist worldwide, you know, on staff. I had maybe about thirty-five artists. I had Ashford & Simpson, A Taste of Honey, Peabo Bryson, Melba Moore, Tina Turner, Rene & Azeala. A lot of artists. It was a great journey. I was there for ten years, and I left Capitol because I wanted to start my own PR firm and I just felt that it would be a good experience to do that.

Gipson: The day I left, which was on my tenth anniversary, one of the groups that I didn't do publicity for at Capitol, which was Frankie Beverly & Maze, asked me would I go to Europe with them for a couple of weeks and work with them for a couple of months and I said yes. Of course, they kept giving me more money, I didn't start my PR firm, and I'm still with them today. But I'm saying all that to say that I feel that black people today, if you have faith, determination, and perseverance and you really believe in yourself that you can do anything you want to, you can. Because when I became publicist at Capitol Records, I mean it was basically--well, we had a lot of blacks, but not a whole lot, but no one ever thought that I would become that, particularly my family and friends. I was just so determined to do more than become a secretary. Again, times are changing where blacks can do and become things, great things. At that time, again, I didn't realize what a great thing it was. I thought it was a wonderful thing.

Gipson: I think that my mentor was probably my uncle, my great-uncle, who was the minister of my church. Again, his name was Reverend Grant Harris. He used to tell me that he didn't care what I became as long as I tried to be the best at it. He said, "You can do anything you want to do if you put your mind to it, but you've got to believe in yourself." I think that young people today, particularly black people, they have so many more opportunities than people had yesterday and there's no reason why they cannot follow their dreams and turn those dreams into a reality.

Stevenson: In terms of the acts that you were involved with as the publicist for Capitol Record, what would you say if you were to maybe look beyond your position? What has been the impact, your impact on shaping black music, if you were to look at some of the acts that you're involved with?

Gipson: Well, when I was at Capitol, they never had press conferences, so I started press conferences for the artists. And the reason I did it, it was really a selfish reason in a way, because rather than to have my artists being interviewed by one publication, if they had a major hit out, what I would do is put together a press conference, have wonderful refreshments, and then I would let the major media come and interview them and do a question-answer thing and take pictures and all that. I would kill like about ten birds with one stone. So I started that at Capitol, which I'd forgotten all about that. What else? What else? That's the main thing, was the press conferences.

Stevenson: So that was innovative at that time?

Gipson: Right.

Stevenson: Other companies were not doing that?

Gipson: Not to my knowledge, and particularly not with black artists, not to my knowledge. And it was wonderful how we did it. The media would be sitting around and then once they were all seated and they had had their refreshments, it was usually a luncheon, and then I would bring the artists in, and we're talking about over twenty years ago. It was just wonderful. Then I might pass out information, bio information on the artists, along with a press kit, so that if they neglected to ask a question, it would be in that bio. I had totally forgotten about all of that. But I don't think they do that anymore at all, which is unfortunate. Nowadays the music has changed so much, it's not like it was.

Stevenson: I know historically many entertainers have had controversies attached to them. We hear more about it now, of course, because there's so much more media, but were any of the acts that you were involved in involved with any controversies during the years you were a publicist?

Stevenson: Yes, Natalie Cole was, which I don't want to go into. Of course, the president and chairman of the board did not know I knew her, so I tried to really make it somewhat go away, because she was a friend. That was the main one, I think, during the years I was there. It was a period where Natalie was going through a lot of different changes in her life and trying to get her life together, even though she could always sing and she was always very lovely, very personable, but there were some things that the record company was a little disappointed in. I just tried to kind of smooth it over. Yes, I do remember that.

Stevenson: Today many corporations and companies are involved in giving back to the community, as it were. When you were at Capitol Records, were there any instances where they gave back to the community, as it were?

Gipson: Well, you know, they did. Surprisingly enough, they did, because at that time--wow, you're bring up so many--you're making me dig back and get all these memories. A young man, I say young man, but he and my mother were very, very close and I called him my uncle and his name was Sugar Ray Robinson, the fighter. He had a foundation here in Los Angeles, and Capitol, once a year they would give CDs and records to nonprofit organizations for them to give away at Christmas time for kids that couldn't afford to purchase music. Capitol was very, very good about giving me a lot of things, a lot of product to give to churches, to give to nonprofit organizations, and that type of thing. Yes, they really were. I mean, I would ask, because I would ask for everything. So they certainly were and they certainly did do that. Whenever Uncle Ray would have--he would have big affairs once a year, I believe it would be at the Hollywood Palladium, the foundation would honor different people, and Capitol Records would give like maybe CDs for gifts and gift bags, stuff like that. So, yes, they did do that and I bet a lot of people don't even know that, but they did, because I would ask them. That's why they would do it.

Stevenson: Maybe you could talk, for people that don't know about the Sugar Ray Robinson Foundation, to your knowledge maybe say a little bit about what the mission and goals of that foundation is.

Gipson: From what I remember, what they did, kids in the underprivileged areas and at different--it was at different schools also, I think they had after-school programs and they would give kids all kinds of things, take them on fields trips. They would take them to all kinds of places. They would try to let these kids know, from what I can remember, that someone really cares, because in most cases the parents didn't have money, and I think a lot of these kids would be at the playgrounds. Like they had programs at the playgrounds, I think, where kids could stay until six o'clock or something like that. But I know the foundation, they were very instrumental in helping a lot of these kids do things and go places that they would not normally be able--they couldn't afford to go. They would give them T-shirts that would have on there "Sugar Ray's Youth Foundation." They would just have all kinds of outings. From what I remember, like the Aaron Spelling and Richard Burton and [Elizabeth] Liz Taylor, they would really support this foundation, because they were all friends with Uncle Ray and his wife Millie. Oh, my goodness, they would give them all kinds of goodies. So it was really a good foundation. I mean, of course, he and his wife have passed and I don't think the foundation is still in existence. For years their office was located on Crenshaw Boulevard. Aunt Millie's son, Butch, he would kind of like oversee everything, but I don't think it still exists anymore. I don't think it does.

Stevenson: In our last session you talked a little bit about the Civil Rights Movement in Los Angeles and remembering Martin Luther King coming to Los Angeles. I'd maybe like to get your impressions of the other parts of the movement. By that I mean groups such as the Black Panthers, the Muslims, and your impressions during those days.

Gipson: Wow. Wow. Well, I never had the pleasure of meeting Dr. King. I just knew people, after he passed, in his organization. Wow. The Black Panthers. I never really met anyone in the Black Panthers that I can remember, but they certainly had an impact here in Los Angeles. I mean, they were everywhere, it appeared. The Muslims, wow. You know, when I think about the Black Muslims, I always thought about the real gentlemen; I mean they were always such gentlemen and so well groomed. And the restaurants I loved going to to eat. A lot of people appeared, during those days, to be afraid of the Black Muslims, but I guess because I'm an Afro-American, I wasn't afraid of them. I thought they were all real gentlemen. I did have the pleasure once to go and hear Malcolm X speak, which I thought was wonderful. I mean, he could really speak. But again, I don't really know that much about them during those days, but I just thought they were all gentlemen, and I loved their bean pies. Today they still sell the newspapers on the street corners in certain areas of Los Angeles, particularly the black areas, and the bean pies and the restaurants are still open. And of course, Minister Louis Farrakhan, who I've had the pleasure of knowing he and his family, and they're really--in my opinion, they're just wonderful people.

Stevenson: Well, with regard to Mr. Farrakhan, what are your impressions of the controversies that have surrounded him, particularly as regards accusations of him as being an anti-Semite, for instance?

Gipson: Well, you know what? See, the Louis Farrakhan I know is probably not the Louis Farrakhan that the public knows. I know the Minister Farrakhan at his home, you know, having dinner at his table. I'm Baptist, I'm not Muslim, but he is one of--and this is strictly my opinion, he is one of the kindest, gentlest men I have ever met in my life. His family, I mean, just wonderful people. So I don't know the Minister Farrakhan that the others talk about, because I only know the one that I just stated, who is very kind and gentle and just a wonderful human being. I don't know the other one. I don't know him. I really, really don't. I mean, going to his home is probably one of the most relaxing places I have ever been. He's so full of wisdom and knowledge and education. And again, this is just me talking. I mean, I don't know that other one. I don't know the one that white America appears to be so afraid of. I don't know that one.

Stevenson: The one that they allege as a separatist, for instance?

Gipson: Exactly. See, I can't speak on that, because I honest to God don't know that one. I really don't. I mean, the one I know is just kind and gentle. That's really all I can say about that.

Stevenson: A last question on the Panthers and the Muslims. In the sixties, there were confrontations with the police, both with the Muslims and with the Panthers, and I wanted to know if you recollected either one of those incidents. I know one of them was off of Adams and Montclair, I believe, involving the Panthers.

Gipson: Right. I remember vaguely reading about that incident, but I really don't think--I think my family was on a vacation during that time and I don't really remember all the particulars. When I think about the Panthers, I think about Angela Davis, who I believe is a professor now at a major university; of course, Bobby Seale; and of course, there were rumors that--what's her name? Oh, what's the actress that was married to Ted Turner?

Stevenson: Jane Fonda.

Gipson: Jane Fonda, knew them all quite well. Those rumors I remembered hearing. Of course, I don't know if they were true or not. But I don't really--you know, I remember seeing the Panthers walking down the streets in certain areas of L.A. and the Black Power and all that, and I remember white America being so afraid of them, but I don't remember a lot of the particulars. I remember the police did not appear to like them very much nor did the police appear to be in love with the Black Muslims during those years. But in terms of the actual incidents, I don't really recall them well enough to really speak on. I just remember when you'd see a Muslim--well, when I'd see a Muslim, of course, I'd always speak and they were very kind and gentle, and when I'd see the Panthers, you know, I'd speak to them, but then I was black. So I guess the average white person didn't do that. But those were certainly different times and particularly in Los Angeles.

Stevenson: Just one last question. There were probably African Americans who, in a word, would distance themselves from the Panthers and the Muslims.

Gipson: Oh, absolutely, a lot. There were a lot of blacks who did that, but I never did it because I'm a firm believer, and I believe it to this day, you never know in life who you're going to need. The Black Muslims supported totally my annual gospel program at my church. They would be there. They may not sit through the affair; they'd put money in the offering. I was a kid then. This was, I think, during the days when I'd go around and I'd see the Muslims selling the newspapers, I'd invite them. I invited everyone, because I figure when we leave here, meaning die, I don't think that there is going to be separation in terms of your religion or your race or your creed. So I have always been the type of person, be it a Panther, a Muslim, whatever, I'm going to try to speak to everyone, because I don't know who I'll meet in life. And I am not going to be afraid, because I have no reason to be afraid. So now I must admit to you I've never met a Klu Klux Klansman unless I met them and did not know. Now, that is the only one to my knowledge. I don't recall ever meeting one, but I believe if I met one, I would speak, because you don't know, and I'm going to speak to everybody. That's just me, though, and I know everyone's not like me, but that's me.

Stevenson: Maybe you could speak on, whether it was as a publicist at Capitol Records or in one of the organizations with which you were involved, could you speak on your experiences with cross-cultural cooperation, whether that was with Anglos or people of other racial ethnic groups?

Gipson: You mean in terms of if I needed other races for favors or whatever?

Stevenson: Yes.

Gipson: You know what? I have to be very honest with you, I've never had a problem, never. I've always been able to deal with all races, and I've never had a problem asking for help. I've never had a problem going to whomever. Now, maybe because I've always been very aggressive and I never took no for an answer, that could have something to do with it. But I was raised like that, that if there's something that you really want, you've got to go after it, because people are not going to knock on your door if they don't have your address. And in most cases when they have your address, they're not going to knock on your door. So I have never had a problem with the other races, never. Never.

Stevenson: In the last session you also told me a little bit about the Regalettes and your mother founding that group. If you could expand or elaborate on that, I'd in particular like to know what were some of the causes that the Regalettes championed over the years or contributed to.

Gipson: Oh, there have been so many. You know, I can remember as a kid them giving a leg--having a leg made for a girl who lost her leg. I can remember them having a wing named after them at St. Jude's Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee, when most people didn't even know about a St. Jude's Hospital, because it was popular, but not as popular as it is today. I can remember them giving baskets of foods to needy families, which we still do today, during Thanksgiving and Christmas. I can remember them going to convalescent homes that no one wanted to go to, that had whites and blacks, whose families never visited them, putting flowers in the room, cheering them up, maybe singing a song to them, even though none of them could really sing. But I can remember them helping families out that had no money. There are so many different things that they did and are still doing.

Gipson: I think really my mother was ahead of her time and I think the Regalettes were ahead of their time. By that I mean, I mentioned to you in the last session the garden parties at the Ambassador Hotel on Wilshire Boulevard at that time, which was connected to the Coconut Grove, a well-known nightclub restaurant, so to speak, or supper club, rather, them having these garden parties. Well, blacks weren't doing things like that then, garden parties where all the club members wore pastel dresses and hats made out of fresh flowers as they greeted their guests and entertainment would be Sammy Davis Jr., Marvin Gaye, Nancy Wilson. You would see everyone that thought they were somebody at these affairs. They were very elegant affairs and very classy. These are things I took for granted. I just figured, oh, my mother's club is having something, I have to go. I didn't know history was being made then, as well as memories. I didn't know that, because when you're young you don't think like that. You think about the next party, the next date, whatever.

Gipson: But the Regalettes, to me, are one of the greatest organizations club-wise, social and charity clubs, in the city of Los Angeles. Now, of course, sure, we have the Links, we have the Deltas, and all of that, but these are known all over the world. The Regalettes were a group of women, most professional women, that my mother started and, I mean, got together with them and they formed this organization and it just turned into a phenomenal thing. And thank God it's still going on in her memory and her legacy will live on. But, oh, my gosh, I mean, my mother--maybe that's where I get my boldness and my aggressiveness. My mother would go to Hugh Hefner at that time and say, "Listen, I want to have the Playboy Club and we're going to have a fashion show here," and la-di-da, la-di-da, and it would be the most fabulous thing in the city. She would have everyone modeling, you know, your top actors, your top vocalists, males, and I mean, it would just be fabulous. Then they would have boat rides, yacht rides. Well, blacks weren't doing things like that then. I mean, this was when I was little. They would just have all kinds of things, but these are the things that stand out the most in my mind. Of course, my mother would have all kind of people helping her, sponsors and what have you, and it was just wonderful. I mean, those were fun times. But you didn't have to worry about people trying to rob you at the affairs or a whole bunch of security. If anything, you'd have security so people wouldn't try to crash it, because once they sold out, people still wanted to come. But those garden parties, I mean, to see those hats on their heads made out of fresh flowers was just unbelievable. Then if a Sammy Davis was at that time performing at the Coconut Grove, then have him drop by with--I'm trying to think, who was he married to then? I can't remember if it was--I mean, what was her name? May Britt or Altovise [Gore]. But it was just unbelievable. I mean, they don't have things like that anymore. I mean, where can you go and see that? Just wonderful, wonderful memories. Really wonderful.

Stevenson: Would you say those early garden parties probably rivaled anything in Anglo social circles?

Gipson: Oh, yes, because people tried to duplicate it, but they couldn't quite get it together. Oh, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that's the one event that really stands out in my mind, but they had so many. But it was just unbelievable. I mean, my mother was--she was not a follower, she was a leader, and her ideas and her creativity was just unbelievable. I mean, she would think of things that I'd never think of. I mean, even as a mother, when my mother sometimes would cook dinner, I mean, we're talking about years ago, she'd have dishes that were flaming and stuff, because she was such a great cook. A lot of people didn't know that. They just looked at her as being a journalist, but she was a phenomenal mother. She could cook her behind off, and sew, and play the piano. I mean, she could do anything. She was just really, really a great person.

Stevenson: Would you say that as a journalist and in your mother's other life roles that she busted wide open gender stereotypes?

Gipson: Yes.

Stevenson: Or the expectations for women.

Gipson: Yes, absolutely. And I thank God every day that--you know, I have a younger sister who is a deputy district attorney, and her name is Shonte. I thank God that between the two of us, I have half of my mother's qualities, my sister has the other half. The things that I don't possess, my sister does of my mother. We didn't realize that until recently. But it's just unbelievable. I mean, I have her aggressiveness. My sister certainly has her business part. Because my mother was buying property when it was unheard of in Los Angeles. I mean, when I say my mother, I mean my mother and father, but my parents they bought a lot and had it for ten years before they built on it. Then when they built on it, then they went to Paul Williams, the well-known architect, and had him to design it. And that was kind of unheard of, because unless you were a black with a whole bunch of money, you didn't do that. But I guess my mother figured, "Well, I'm going to get him now and I'll have the money by the time the plans are finished," or whatever. But it was just, as I look back, those were good days.

Gipson: Kids today don't realize that things they're doing now, memories are being made. I know they don't realize it, because when I was a kid I didn't realize it. And they don't realize that today the opportunities are so much more. There's no reason for you not to finish school. You've got grants. You've got organizations that will help you. You have all kinds of scholarships. Sure, a lot of times you have to go to the libraries and find out where they are, but if you're aggressive, you will. But there are opportunities out here and there's no reason for black kids today to have any excuse, because if you can dream it, you can do it.

Stevenson: All right. [End of April 15, 2008 interview]

1.3. Session 3 (May 1, 2008)

Stevenson: Good morning. I'm continuing an interview with Reve Gipson on Thursday, May 1st. Reve, I have some follow-up questions about your mom. Could you tell me or give me an example of how your mother encouraged more and better roles for African Americans in the entertainment industry?

Gipson: She was always willing to share her knowledge of the business with young people, because she realized that they would be tomorrow's leaders. I know that I have met several young ladies that at some point worked for her or did some type of an internship with her, and they always told me how much they learned from her in terms of writing ability, their writing abilities and organizational skills and things like that. Ironically enough, this morning on the Channel 7 News I saw a picture of my mother [Gertrude Penland Gipson] and my sister [Shonte Penland Abraham] and Sidney Poitier--which has nothing to do with what you just said--relating to a book that he's coming out with. I was so focused on the picture of my mother and sister I didn't really pay that much attention, but obviously he's coming out with some type of a book in the next few days. This was a picture from the book, because I think I mentioned to you earlier that my mother was the first person that Sydney Poitier met, particularly woman, when he came to Los Angeles unknown.

Stevenson: You talked at length about your mother's career at the [Los Angeles] Sentinel. Could you tell me perhaps about her writing for other publications? I saw that she in early years worked for the Pittsburgh Courier or did some writing for the Pittsburgh Courier, and also for Sepia magazine.

Gipson: The Pittsburgh Courier, I think that my father wrote for that, J.T. Gipson. He wrote for the Pittsburgh Courier. She wrote articles--wow, I mean, I was either a little girl or I wasn't born, I can't remember, but for Sepia magazine. I'd love to get some old copies of that. But she wrote articles, features on, I believe it was mostly entertainment and entertainers. Then I believe she wrote for the Herald Dispatch, I think, for a moment, I think. But actually when I came along, I mean, it was the Los Angeles Sentinel. That's the only real publication, and Sepia, of course, I'm really quite familiar with. Sepia magazine, oh, my god, I'd forgotten about that, yes.

Stevenson: Can you tell me about your mother's role on the California Motion Picture Development Board?

Gipson: She was the first black appointed by, I believe it was Edmund Brown, I think. I think that's who the governor was then. Edmund Brown or was it Jerry Brown? I know the governor was a Brown. It was a Mr. Brown, Governor Brown. If I'm not mistaken, I think that back then they were trying to make sure that more motion pictures or that motion pictures would be consistently made in California. I don't remember all the particulars in terms of what her exact position was. I just remember she was the first black and she would have to go to meetings, I think it was like once a month. That's really all that I can remember about that.

Stevenson: So you don't know how she came to the attention of the governor's office as somebody that should be appointed?

Gipson: Well, yes, I think that how that came about was at that time, during that time my mother was extremely popular in the black community, and most people, when they would pick up the Sentinel, they would go to entertainment, sports, and family, and maybe not necessarily in that order. My mother was extremely popular in Los Angeles, having been here all of her life, and she knew a lot of influential people who she had known before they became influential, and that's what I'm kind of thinking happened. Because if you wanted to get something in the entertainment section, you'd have to go through her in Los Angeles and if you were black.

Stevenson: Could you tell me how the concept for your mother's radio show, Hollywood Update, how that came about and what was the purpose of the show?

Gipson: It was called Hollywood Update and it was on Stevie Wonder's station, KJLH, in Los Angeles. I can't remember who approached her. I don't know if it was Stevie or someone at the station. But it spoke about entertainment and what entertainers were doing. Of course, this was before--oh, my gosh, I mean, this was before, to my knowledge, anyone was doing anything on radio about black entertainers, and it was certainly before there was anything on television about black entertainment. So I think that she really laid the groundwork or foundation for what came later. But I think the purpose of it was more or less to let the community know what black entertainers were doing around the city and around the country, and it was very, very popular and she stayed on the air for some time. I cannot remember how long she had the show, but I know it was for some time. It was for some time.

Stevenson: Was it syndicated? Was it heard beyond L.A.?

Gipson: Was it syndicated? You know, I don't think so. The only syndication that I can remember that she had was she wrote for a newspaper in St. Louis, an entertainment column. Her column was syndicated to this paper in St. Louis and it was a black-owned paper, and I don't remember the name of it. No, it wasn't black-owned either, but blacks ran it. Darn it, I cannot think of the name of it. But that's the most I know about the syndication.

Stevenson: Now I'm going to turn back to you. I would like you to talk more about Youth on Parade. I'd like to find out what the influence or effect on the community of Youth on Parade over the years, whether it influenced the development of other similar programs, and could you talk about the success stories of some of the young people that participated?

Gipson: Wow. Okay. All right. D.J. Rogers, who is a well-known vocalist in Los Angeles, had a song out years ago called "Say You Love Me." But during the time when D.J. Rogers was coming to Youth on Parade, we were all youngsters, so to speak. D.J., myself, and Billy Preston, we would go to various churches on Sunday nights and they would have the broadcast and all that.

Gipson: Okay. At a Youth on Parade program, D.J. Rogers one year sang, and that particular year I was honoring Earth, Wind, & Fire, who were very popular then. They were in the prime of all of their hit records. Maurice White, who is the leader of the group, he heard D.J. Rogers and was just overwhelmed with his talent, and called D.J. a few days later and offered him a recording contract. At that time, Maurice White and Earth, Wind & Fire had their own record label, or they were getting ready to have it. So they signed D.J. and he was just so excited, and it was because he saw D.J. at Youth on Parade. That's one success story. I'm sure there are many others. That's the one that stands out in my mind. I'm trying to think. Oh, my gosh. That's one of the biggest ones, I would say. There have been a lot of people that have been helped through Youth on Parade, a lot of blacks whose families did not have the proper funding to help send them through college. We were able to assist with that at a time when I was a kid myself. We were also able to give monies to various other organizations like the Dubanov School for the Mentally Retarded, the scholarship fund, of course, at my church, Good Shepherd Baptist [Church]. Oh, my gosh. The Asthma Foundation [Fund]. Just so many different organizations. But the bulk of the money went to the scholarship fund at the church to help those students whose families could not adequately pay for their college education, so what we tried to do was assist them in some small way, and it worked out pretty good.

Gipson: There were other churches in the community that tried to use the name Youth on Parade, but because I had the name, I guess it's called patent or something, they weren't able to use it, but they sure tried. It was a program where youth of all races, creeds, and religions came together for a day of worship, and at the same time there were various organizations that benefited from the offering that we collected. Now, keep in mind I was about thirteen years old when I started the program. So it was quite different and quite unique and, as I mentioned earlier, because I had to be in church all day, I thought it would be nice for me to have a little fun thing that I would really enjoy. Then I was trying to make my uncle proud of me, too, because he was the minister and founder of the church. Because when I would sing in the choir, I felt that, you know, the kids would look at me funny and I didn't want to usher because I didn't like standing up during the service, so I decided to have this little musical, which really turned into something that I never anticipated.

Stevenson: Did you ever take any of the productions beyond L.A.?

Gipson: No, and that's interesting you said that, because several years ago Aretha Franklin's father, Reverend C.L. Franklin, had asked me if I would something similar like my program in Detroit at his church, which was New Bethel Baptist Church. We talked about it, but it was so much work and putting it together here in L.A., I just, I don't know, it never really came to pass. But certainly he did talk about having it syndicated and doing it in various churches. But I just thought that was a little overwhelming for me, because my thing was really just to do it here to make my uncle happy, and that's kind of as far as it went.

Stevenson: So even though you never took it on the road, as it were, or beyond L.A., did it influence any similar programs out of state or other places in California?

Gipson: Well, I certainly think it did in California, because as I recall, I remember programs like Children on Parade or We're on Parade, you know, or Children Marching on Parade, and all that type of thing. So I think it did. I think it did, because it was unique, I mean, and it still is. I had one last year. What is this, '08? In '07, and it was very good. It was very good. Again, we don't gear it at just Afro-American children. We've always had all races. When I say "we," because I do have a committee of people that have really helped me, and certainly Councilman Bernard Parks and Congresswoman Maxine Waters and the late Councilman Gilbert Lindsey [phonetic], the late Mayor Tom Bradley, were all like somewhat fixtures at the program each year, because I felt it's such a positive program. I mean, there's no negativity anywhere around it. What we have always tried to make young people know, or what I've tried to make them know is that with faith, determination, and perseverance, all things are possible. It does not matter what color you are. You can become what you want to become if you put your mind to it. Because someone believed so heavily in me, I try to let young people know that there are people that do believe in you. There are people that care. I think that's so important today, it really is, because young people today are not like they were years ago. I think a lot of it stems from they just need more guidance and more encouragement, because now we're living in times where times are hard and you have to work and maybe their parents can't always be there with them. But hopefully it's one person somewhere that will encourage them along the way.

Stevenson: Did you ever have any interfaith participation of other churches, synagogues, other faiths?

Gipson: Oh, yes, absolutely. You mean in terms of helping me with the program or getting involved?

Stevenson: Yes.

Gipson: Absolutely. Dr. [Robert H.] Schuller at the Crystal Cathedral, you know, who is the only church today on television where they can be seen in China and Russia, I used their children's choir last year, just last year. When Gilbert Lindsey was living, and Dr. Schuller Sr. probably would not remember this, but I called Dr. Schuller to see, just to see, if I could have my program there one afternoon and he told me yes. This was like twenty-some years ago. It was because of Gilbert Lindsey and Tom Bradley. I was just kind of feeling the waters. Then Gilbert Lindsey had even suggested to me--I can't remember how old the Music Center is, but he said, "Why don't you have it at the Music Center one year?"

Gipson: I said, "I can't afford the Music Center."

Gipson: He said, "Well, you'll have to pay at least a dollar, but you could have it there."

Gipson: So I did have a lot of people that were really helping me and churches, which is what your question was. West Angeles Church of God in Christ, Bishop Charles Blake. Mt. Moriah Baptist, Reverend Melvin Wade. First AM&E, at that time Bishop Brookings. I mean, they all have helped me and played a really important role in some of the years in helping me to really get it together, so to speak. I even used West Angeles, First AM&E, and well, Mt. Moriah I still use because it's larger than my church is, but I used the other churches during the time when my church had a fire and they allowed me to use their church for my program, which I thought was wonderful. But, yes, they have all been absolutely wonderful. I didn't think about that until you asked me.

Stevenson: Could you tell me about your role as commissioner of the L.A. County Music and Performing Arts Commission?

Gipson: Okay, well, I'm not on that commission any longer. I am currently on my seventh commission. My role on the one that you just asked about, well, that was the old commission. Well, the commission I'm on right now is library, libraries for the county of L.A. I was appointed by Supervisor Yvonne Burke in recent years. Well, okay, if I'm not mistaken, I think there are twelve county supervisors and each supervisor appoints a commissioner to represent them at the meetings. Basically we are representing our supervisors. Oh, we do so many things. It's kind of like, I mean, they present the budget to us and they tell us about the future locations for the libraries, what will going on with the libraries in years to come, what they're doing now, because they're so advanced compared to when I was in school, because now there are computers in the libraries. I mean, there are just all kinds of things. Gee, that's a great question you asked me. But we do a lot of things. And I try to visit all the libraries that I'm kind of overseeing for the Second District. But basically we just kind of represent our supervisors and anything dealing with libraries for the county of Los Angeles. We try to report back to our supervisors to let them know what's going on and try to represent them as well as we can.

Stevenson: So is any part of that position involve you being any kind of advocate for the community or the area that you represent?

Gipson: Well, yes and no. Certainly, I try to represent her as well as I can whenever I can, but Supervisor Burke has so many deputies and what have you till they really kind of take care of things like that. It's just really, I feel, my responsibility to report back and let her know what's going on with the county libraries, because she certainly feels, and I do, too, that it's so important for children to read and have a place where they can go and read, too.

Stevenson: I also see that you've had a position as president of the L.A. County Parks and Recreation Commission.

Gipson: That was another commission I was on. That was dealing with the parks and the golf courses in the county of Los Angeles. Then I was also on the Aging Commission. I was on several commissions. But this one I really like, because I used to work at a library in Los Angeles, so I really like this one.

Stevenson: What do you, in detail, what do you do on this?

Gipson: Well, we have monthly meetings. We have monthly meetings and there are different seminars and retreats you can go on. Basically it's just letting us know what is going on. We meet with the librarian for the county of Los Angeles once a month. It's just really letting us know what's going on dealing with the libraries, that's what it is. Then, of course, we report back to our supervisor, to make a long story short. But it's somewhat of an honor to be appointed as a commissioner, because as I stated, the supervisor has to appoint you. My very first commission, I was appointed by Supervisor Kenneth Hahn. That was my first one.

Stevenson: What was the first commission that you--?

Gipson: I think the first one was--I think it was the Arts and--what did you say?

Stevenson: Music and Performing Arts?

Gipson: That was the first commission I was on.

Stevenson: So that was--.

Gipson: That was dealing with the arts in Los Angeles County. What did we do? Oh, gosh. I know it was dealing with all the arts in the county of L.A. I can't remember exactly what we did. We did so many things. I know that it was also affiliated with the Music Center and the plays and the musicals and anything dealing with arts for the County of Los Angeles, not the city, but the county. But it was a long time ago.

Stevenson: Could you tell me about any other organizations that you've been involved with over the years that we've not discussed?

Gipson: Well, I'm involved with, I've been a member of NARIS [National Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences], which is the National Academy of--what is it? NARIS, N-A-R-I-S. Well, what it does is, it's over the Grammys.

Stevenson: Recording arts?

Gipson: Recording arts, right. I've been a member there for many years, and I'm a voting member, which means that I vote for those that receive the Grammys each year. How you become a member there is you--well, how I became a member is I wrote a song several years ago for a group called the Chi Lites. The hit song was, the A-side of the song was, "Have You Seen Her?" I wrote the B-side, which was, "Yes, I'm Ready If I Don't Get to Go."

Gipson: What happened, my uncle who was a dentist in Los Angeles, his name was Dalo Gray, he had kind of started the song off, it was a poem--or did he start it off? I think he had kind of written a line or two and I finished, and that's how I started writing songs. "Have You Seen Her?" probably sold about four million copies worldwide. So I took a free ride, and that's how I became a member of NARIS and the Songwriters Guild of America. And I'm a member of BMI, which is Broadcast, Music, something, and they just make sure you get your royalties and what have you.

Stevenson: What was the background behind you deciding to write this song?

Gipson: My uncle had died, and I can't really quite remember if I had seen this poem, a little bit of it, the first line, and I said, "Oh, I'm going to finish this poem." It was a poem to me. I thought about him and I was writing about him. Then I had met the lead singer of the Chi Lites, a guy named Eugene Record, who has since passed, and I showed it to him. He said, "Oh, we're getting ready to record." He said, "I like this." He put the music to it and that was how it happened.

Gipson: Then after that, I wrote a couple of other songs. I think I even wrote a song years ago with Johnnie Cochran Sr. I think we were going to finish a song or something, a Christmas song, I think. I can't even remember who I submitted that song to. But I guess I wrote about four or five songs, and that's how it came about. It all started being a poem. I was in high school, either junior high or high school. That's what happened, and I didn't realize there were so much royalties in songs. So then I started my own publishing company, which is Shonte Music, and I just kind of took it from there. So that's what happened.

Stevenson: Any other organizations or anything else you'd like to add to the interview before we close?

Gipson: That's really all I can think of right now. That's all I can think of. Well, I think I told you, I wrote for the Sentinel newspaper and I started when I was in grammar school. Did I tell you that?

Stevenson: I think you did. Maybe you could give me a little bit more detail on how that came about.

Gipson: Well, I used to go to the Sentinel as a kid with my mother all of the time, and I became very friendly with the publishers, Leon and Ruth Washington. Mrs. Washington just kind of--I was like considered one of her children. She just kind of took me under her wing. So I wrote a little article when I was in grammar school. That was my first article. Then later I became youth editor and we won a lot of awards from the Black National Newspaper Association. Then I went on to write different little articles, like Brad Pye, [Jr.] was the sports editor and he'd let me write little sports columns--not columns, but stories on sports figures. Through college I wrote, and it was just, I guess it was just kind of in my blood. I never really wanted to write, but my mother--because my major in college at first was religion because I was very interested in religions. My mother thought that it should be journalism with a minor in speech, and so that's what it was. I guess I kind of like went in my mother's footsteps, I guess, but I never really wanted to write, and I never really wanted to talk. But I think once I started both then it just kind of flowed, because I thought everyone could speak, particularly over a microphone. I just felt if you gave a person a microphone, they could talk. I didn't know that that wasn't true. I thought everyone could write, but then I later learned that everyone couldn't write. I was never a great lover of writing, but I thanked God that I could write. So I guess it was just in the genes, I guess.

Stevenson: Do you remember the subject of any of those articles you wrote as youth editor?

Gipson: Oh, sure. Sure. I remember writing an article when I was really young on James Brown. I remember writing an article on Sam Cooke. I'm trying to think. James Brown, Sam Cooke. I remember writing articles on entertainers. Oh, I remember writing an article on Sidney Poitier when I was youth editor, and I remember taking a picture with him and it appearing in my youth section, because I was youth editor then. I never had any problems getting to the people because of my mother.

Gipson: But the article on James Brown, it stands out in my memory so well, because I was in school and I think I had to go to the Shrine Auditorium, and after his performance they'd have to give him injections of, what was it, vitamin E or vitamin--it was some kind of vitamin, because he would be so dehydrated. I remember going backstage interviewing him, and at that time my uncle, Dr. Dalo Gray, was his dentist, and then he knew my mother, so that's how I was able to get it. But I remember that was very exciting and interesting, the Shrine Auditorium. It was sold out. Very few people could go backstage. Then I interviewed him as he was laying down, like, kind of on a stretcher with these injections going into his arm. That was very exciting then to me. I had never seen anything like that. So I do remember that, yes, I do.

Stevenson: Okay. All right. Well, if there's nothing else you want to add, I thank you very much.

Gipson: Thank you. Thank you. [End of interview]

A TEI Project

Interview of Reve Gipson

Contents

1. Transcript

1.1. Session 1 (April 9, 2008)

1.2. Session 2 (April 15, 2008)

1.3. Session 3 (May 1, 2008)